Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

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Is there a batting problem in County cricket?

Joined: February 13th, 2014, 9:14 pm

July 18th, 2017, 3:08 pm #1

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
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Joined: August 20th, 2013, 11:26 am

July 18th, 2017, 3:25 pm #2

Stoneman or Westley look likely to be the replacements for Dawson & Ballance for the next test, according to Bayliss.

From cricinfo

"......Surrey's Mark Stoneman is the most likely replacement. Trevor Bayliss, the England coach, admitted after Trent Bridge that Stoneman and Essex's Tom Westley had been discussed as options ahead of the series and should be considered "on the edge" of the team........"

Westley would be my choice, wearing my Yorkshire hat, then he misses the match at Scarborough against us.

Without the YCC cap on, Stoneman would be my choice of the two.

Lots to choose from, and they all look like a million dollars in CC, but look completely clueless when pulling on the England shirt and going up a level.
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Joined: February 10th, 2014, 7:23 pm

July 18th, 2017, 3:37 pm #3

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
There's certainly a dearth of CLASS batting talent with the ability to knuckle down and grind out an innings.There are plenty of 1/2 season wonders, plenty of hype from ill informed commentators who see very little County cricket and latch onto the current flavour of the month and over hype them.

Whether of not they then begin to believe their own publicity is moot but the evidence is that very few progress to real, top class,consistent status so that would be the case for me.

As a traditionalist the curtailment of 'proper' cricket, the ever changing emphasis by the ECB to promote and develop the one day and T20 stuff, at the expense of 4 day cricket, is reaping it's own reward in terms of test players.

To a degree bowling is similar whatever the format, take wickets or contain.

Batting is not and this mantra of "that's the way we play" is nonsensical, immature and short sighted.The fact that it seems to be condoned by Bayliss et al only serves to perpetuate the myth that it's OK to play like that.

Well,as we saw yesterday and on many other occasions, it's far from alright. Do the ECB think the crowd would have left early in droves yesterday were England to finish on 150 -3 at the end of the day?

Of course they wouldn't but maybe, just maybe, that audience are not the one the ECB is bothered about.

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Joined: September 7th, 2015, 9:28 pm

July 18th, 2017, 5:46 pm #4

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
I don't think it is only one thing but could it be that with tools such as super slow motion and the incredible close up pictures they can get nowadays that the analysts are getting better at pin pointing any weakness in batting technique.

Sky seem only too happy to draw attention to any possible defect of new England players and only the very best are able to change their technique after being found out.
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Joined: August 17th, 2016, 11:12 am

July 18th, 2017, 6:08 pm #5

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
In short, the answer is yes.

As soon as there's any assistance in a wicket, for seamers or spinners, wickets start to tumble. Batsmen don't have the ability, or inclination, to try and battle through a difficult period. The only answer they have is to hit out, which may come off now and again, against county bowlers, but not against an international bowling attack.

How often do you see an innings like Lyth's 100 against Lancashire earlier this season, I'm not, for one moment, suggesting that Lyth be recalled to the Test Team.
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Joined: August 7th, 2014, 4:58 pm

July 18th, 2017, 6:37 pm #6

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
I can name plenty of batsmen in county cricket who can build a test match innings: Sangakkara, Chanderpaul, Collingwood, Trott, Trescothick.....oh, hang on 😉
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Joined: June 4th, 2015, 6:32 pm

July 19th, 2017, 8:00 am #7

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
Which says experience is needed for tests rather than youthful promise.

Hence Malan or Stoneman rather than Clarke or Hameed....
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 7:18 pm

July 19th, 2017, 8:07 am #8

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
It'll be interesting to see the results from the rest of the summer before worrying too much about any national batting problems. I'm not sure I heard too many complaints post Lords nor too many if we win the next game.

Reading a report on cricinfo that seemed to suggest yo-yo results in test match series were becoming the norm. One team would win by a large margin then lose by one in the next.
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Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 8:54 pm

July 19th, 2017, 8:44 am #9

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
Not sure that is true, Sooty. England collapsed in the second innings and that didn't go without comment. It was also recognized that Root had a couple of lives early on in his 190 in the first innings.

More generally, it has been talked about for some time that Strauss has never been replaced and that 2 or 3 of the top 6 in the order are often passengers. Ballance was thought to have been part of the answer for a year until he faced the top attacks. Jonny's return has been one of the only factors compensating for these problems.

Attempts to play spin in the winter were also noted.
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Joined: October 17th, 2013, 8:44 pm

July 19th, 2017, 10:23 am #10

Following Englands thrashing yesterday, Hussain raised a fair point that Cook, Root and Bairstow aside, we have failed to progress a batsman for many years.

The list is endless... Robson Hales Lyth Jennings Balance Vince Buttler off the top of my head.

Hameed - The jury is still out.

But, its a remarkable rate of failure. Every single one of them in the last 3 years has failed to make the grade. In most cases, they get a good run too.

Is this a sign that the requirements of a test match batsman are becoming very different from that of a County one?

Is this bad management/coaching by England (Such as when they brought Ballance back the second time and persist with playing him at 3).

Or do we have a dearth of batting talent (Though many talented young lads about)?
Batting sides have ALWAYS collapsed on tricky pitches, against good bowling. But perhaps, in days gone by, they had more resources at their command, having learned to play on uncovered pitches, and with only one form of the game to master as they grew up.

There is a wealth of batting talent in County Cricket, all the ones mentioned, plus Adam Hose and Liam Livingstone, who have emerged only recently. Obviously we have high hopes for Harry Brook.

But, by marginalising the Championship, by depriving it of its best players, by playing nearly all the games in April, May and Septemmber...the ECB has deprived the young batsmen the chance to learn that particular craft.

I believe it to be deliberate, they want it to fail, Graves, Harrison and Strauss. Then they can introduce a franchise layer of 8 First Class teams and the 18 County Clubs will effectively join the Minor Counties. They're doing it first with T20. 50-over and First Class will follow. You'd better believe it.
Bowlers win matches
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