4th Test | England vs South Africa at Old Trafford (Match Thread)

Joined: 04 Jun 2015, 18:32

05 Aug 2017, 12:07 #11

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

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STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Crap decision as if that was hitting in line then it was under 1% and enough doubt to be given not out by on field umpire.

He may have an end named after him but his ridiculous reverse sweep to the spinner nearly saw Anderson out a few overs earlier.

But yes the whole batting order is bonkers when one of the best three has to bat with the tail and play t20 innings with number 11
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Joined: 27 Apr 2007, 17:25

05 Aug 2017, 12:42 #12

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

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Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
The idea I find truly hilarious is that Jonny should bat at no. 7 because Gilchrist did. That Australia team had so many world class players in the top 6 that Darren Lehmann couldn't get into it. The England side has four test-class batsmen: Root, Bairstow, Cook and Stokes. It has one "solid citizen" in Westley and a highly talented but "flirty" sort of player in Moeen Ali. Quite what Malan is doing in the team - other than that he looked promising in an ODI - isn't clear (at almost 30 years of age, he can't be the youth policy). In my view, they might as well have picked Hildreth, who has many of the virtues of Westley though is probably well past his best now, or gone back to Vince. But neither should bat ahead of Bairstow or Stokes.
Sky keep showing a chart that indicates Bairstow has a better average at 6 or 7 than at other places in the batting order. I don't know what that is supposed to show. Since he has mostly been picked to bat at 6 or 7 in recent years, it probably just indicates that he is getting better as a test player, which isn't exactly surprising - and is really an argument for moving him UP the order. Or it could just mean that he's had more not-outs through running out of partners.
Someone even suggested that it might be best to leave him at 7 because he's good at batting with the tail. But you get to bat with the tail if you're good enough to stay in. Joe Root often bats with the tail and Jennings could if he were capable of staying in for that long.
Jonny batted very frenetically at Trent Bridge, but then so did the whole team. I think they were probably getting ahead of themselves after a comprehensive win in the first test. To move Jonny back down the batting order after that was both a misreading of the situation and entirely pointless, since he effectively batted at 5 anyway after Jennings and Malan failed to make meaningful contributions.

The DRS thing is more complicated than is currently being understood by most of the commentators. If umpires are willing to give those sorts of decision out, when previously (ie before Hawkeye) they would have given the benefit of the doubt to the batsman, then "umpire's call" has become problematical. Only the most atrocious of umpires would have given that out before the days of DRS. To put it another way, the whole "finely balanced architecture" of DRS requires that umpires behave like human umpires, not cyborgs who think they are second-guessing the technology. In this situation, there is still "doubt" because the technology isn't perfect, but such "benefit of the doubt" as there now is is actually going to the bowlers!

EDIT:
Looking at this again, I see I've possibly just found a more long-winded way to say "Crap decision" and "the whole batting order is bonkers".
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Joined: 12 May 2017, 12:32

05 Aug 2017, 13:03 #13

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

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Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Good post Dewsbarian. Pretty much sums up my feelings
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Joined: 04 Jun 2015, 18:32

05 Aug 2017, 13:24 #14

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

Live Scorecard
Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Your version is so much more eloquent then mine.

Bit like comparing a write up in the Mirror with the Times.....
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Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 20:03

05 Aug 2017, 13:28 #15

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

Live Scorecard
Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
He's probably not out more often when he bats 7, making the statistics ridiculous
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Joined: 04 Jun 2015, 18:32

05 Aug 2017, 13:40 #16

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

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Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Keeping wicket taking leg side catches and outrunning the slip cordon when balls racing to third man.

I'd put him on as our first spinner in a few overs time so Moeen can be happier bowling as second fiddle
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Joined: 27 Apr 2007, 17:25

05 Aug 2017, 13:57 #17

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

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Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Nice for him that he did record one century today: 95 catches and 5 stumpings at test level now.

Eventually, as in tennis or rugby, the technology will be used to make CORRECT decisions, rather than to APPEAL against decisions on the basis of whether they are slightly or hugely wrong (only a cricket administrator could have thought up anything quite so weird). It's hard to defend cricket to laypeople when the same episode of play can result in one particular decision or its exact opposite, depending on which particular mistake the on-field umpire has made.

EDIT:
An afterthought. Has anyone ever seen Jonny bowl? I think he's listed somewhere as right arm medium pace. I've seen a few overs from Gary Ballance - either at Kidderminster or Kings Heath, I forget which - but I've not seen Jonny's medium pace.
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Joined: 17 Aug 2016, 11:12

05 Aug 2017, 14:04 #18

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

Live Scorecard
Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
I've seen him bowl, on TV. It was a 4-day game against Durham 3 or 4 years ago. Final afternoon, game meandering towards a draw, he was given an over or two.
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Joined: 14 Aug 2007, 12:51

05 Aug 2017, 16:47 #19

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

Live Scorecard
Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Wonderful innings by JB today. Such a pity he missed out on the deserved century.

I guess I must be in a minority of one over where he should bat in the order. I really like the six,seven,eight engine room in the England team. No-one can be a bigger admirer of Jonny than me; however he deserves a bit of a rest now and again. England's fragile top order means that batting at five will hardly ever give him much of a break after keeping.
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Joined: 07 Sep 2015, 21:28

05 Aug 2017, 17:34 #20

Aug 4-8, 2017 - 4th Test at Old Trafford, Manchester

ENGLAND from: TBA
SOUTH AFRICA From: TBA

Live Scorecard
Old Trafford Weather

STATS NOTE: In eight the past nine series England have played, they have lost the final Test eight times occasions.
Another good day for England with bat and ball.

Just imagine what they could do with a couple more decent batsmen in the top 5.

Pity about JB's missed century but it's probably just marginally better, not for your average of course, getting out rather than being stranded on 99.
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