Joined: November 11th, 2014, 11:51 pm

March 13th, 2018, 5:43 am #21

But it's not really closer, too big a technology gap, seems to me the 1916 GF is something of a blunt instrument belonging to was an era where C2 had not cought up with the changes in speed and capabilities of the ships, so it will not do well against anything but a similar force. It also has major problems in the poor shells and lack of effective TDS, last one might be really bad against the type 93.
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Joined: August 24th, 2007, 11:14 pm

March 13th, 2018, 9:37 am #22

The Leyte Gulf scenario's main advantage is it forces the Jap units to fight, the other two scenarios the Japs would lauch air strikes from long range, retreat to load more bombs/torpedos and try to work out what ships they were attacking and where they came from.

Question, if the Grand Fleet has replaced the American forces, where are the American forces and what has happen to the british timeline due to the sudden disappearance of so many heavy warships?
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Joined: April 7th, 2011, 3:21 pm

March 13th, 2018, 1:16 pm #23

I'd  let the landing force land. Let them take Leyte. The fleet engages the RN and inflicts as many losses/damage as possible without taking any risks. After that experience by the RN (take a few BB blown up quite rapidly), I'm courious whether the RN would ever dare to send a heavily escorted convoy to Leyte again. If they send lightly escorted convoys the attrition of ships will be even higher. In the end the fleet doesn't dare to come out again and the troops on Leyte are doomed.  Just a completely different take on the scenario..

Basically just the RN's strategy during WW 1.
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Joined: June 22nd, 2007, 10:58 pm

March 13th, 2018, 2:24 pm #24

The Japanese had very few carrier-based planes at that point, but had land-based aircraft on the Philippines.  But would they bother to resort to Kamikaze attacks against British forces, who have virtually no air defenses? Or would they rearm those aircraft with bombs and torpedoes?  

The British fleet had no amphibious landing capability so would they even be a threat to land forces on the Philippines?

In a reverse of history, prolonging the battle and not engaging decisively may be in the Japanese interests.  The British fleet wasn't built to operate that far from the British Islands, and would have a very hard time sustaining itself.  If the Japanese could harass the British enough to keep them from closing off shipping routes, they could eventually wear the British fleet down.  Between airpower on the Philippines and the fast components of the Japanese fleet, they could hit and run virtually at will.  
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Joined: September 23rd, 2014, 7:26 pm

March 13th, 2018, 5:04 pm #25

Northern Force alone would take out the whole British fleet.  The British have nothing that could touch high-speed aircraft, and the Japanese could bomb and torpedo to their hearts' content.  Maybe if the Japanese carriers couldn't rearm, some of the RN destroyers and cruisers would survive until the IJN light forces caught up and sank them.
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Joined: August 24th, 2007, 11:14 pm

March 13th, 2018, 10:48 pm #26

Here's a thought: the Grand Fleet was very nervous about torpedoes -- they actually turned away from the fight at the mere possibility of a German DD attack. The Japanese had much better torpedoes, and after a few Long Lances had hit, I think the British might be a bit less aggressive.

On the other hand, the numbers would seem to indicate that the Japanese just might run out of ammo before the end of the fight...
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Joined: June 2nd, 2014, 11:59 pm

March 13th, 2018, 11:09 pm #27

Ammunition would seem to be the limiting element of Japanese success. The environment isn't target rich, it's target gluttony!
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Joined: April 30th, 2007, 6:42 pm

March 14th, 2018, 4:22 am #28

Joe Steel wrote: Northern Force alone would take out the whole British fleet.  The British have nothing that could touch high-speed aircraft, and the Japanese could bomb and torpedo to their hearts' content.  Maybe if the Japanese carriers couldn't rearm, some of the RN destroyers and cruisers would survive until the IJN light forces caught up and sank them.
How many torpedoes did the Japanese carriers carry?
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Joined: November 11th, 2014, 11:51 pm

March 14th, 2018, 6:14 am #29

I think a couple of strikes worth so about 50 per ship, the limiting factor is that even with no AA normal wear and tear will soon end the air threat, if I got it right the whole IJN air complement was 25 Jill, 4 Kates, 80 Zeros and 7 Judys so only 29 TBs total.

If we really want to play I suggest we turn the scenario around, the GF is covering an evacuation, so the IJN is only getting that one chance to hurt it. That would also explain the absences from the IJN OOB, they were lost in precious confrontations that convinced the British the position was untenable, and takes LBA out of the picture.
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Joined: January 11th, 2007, 5:52 pm

March 14th, 2018, 8:21 am #30

Don't the British invite the Japanese over for tea with flags flying? Anyone on the Grand fleet  - with a"  the final countdown" mindset ( i.e WW1, think they will be heading towards allies?) and be most surprised when they open fire and break the crockery?.
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