Under Ice Operations

Joined: 5:38 AM - May 05, 2006

3:25 PM - Aug 13, 2009 #1

I saw a program on the military channel last night about tests the USN is performing in the Arctic. They have a base on the ice pack to support the operation, and there were two SSNs operating under the ice and firing exercise torpedoes at each other. The surface teams would have to cut holes in the ice to recover the torpedoes.
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Joined: 7:10 AM - Apr 20, 2005

4:18 PM - Aug 13, 2009 #2

As long as they were on the Alaskan side, and not in "Canadian Internal Waters".
Air bursts will not create "Areas of Doom" - Survival under Atomic Attack
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Joined: 3:53 PM - Mar 01, 2005

6:34 PM - Aug 13, 2009 #3

Or had permission from Canada to operate there.
There it is... the District of Columbia! You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
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Joined: 7:10 AM - Apr 20, 2005

7:00 PM - Aug 13, 2009 #4

What?! You mean our SUBOPAUTH would actually issue a subnote to American submarines? Why, that would mean the foundation for our governments Arctic strategy is a steaming crock. No, the American submarines must have been operating in "American internal waters". Or trespassing on our pristine "Canadian Internal Waters". For some reason the previous post deleted the sarcasm tag.
Air bursts will not create "Areas of Doom" - Survival under Atomic Attack
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Joined: 4:42 AM - Aug 17, 2008

2:06 PM - Jun 20, 2018 #5

On the topic of under ice operations, I've read where the US, Germans and Russians operated their conventional submarines under ice on several occasions before and during WW2, and it seems the US pioneered a dedicated sonar for such operations from the mid 1940's onwards. 
I'm rather surprised, but I've never come across any info for under ice operations undertaken by the British until the introduction of their SSN's. Have I missed something along the way or didn't the British ever take their conventional's under ice?
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jua
Joined: 3:54 AM - Mar 17, 2005

6:24 PM - Jun 20, 2018 #6

Do you have any references to those operations? I'd not heard about anyone operating under the ice, and I'd be particularly surprised if the USN did. The Russians might not have had a choice at points during the winter and I can maybe see an aggressive German captain using it as a tactic to intercept convoys to Murmask.
Cheers,
Josh

https://squidjigger.com
Josh@squidjigger.com
twitter: @squid_jigger
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Joined: 4:42 AM - Aug 17, 2008

10:17 PM - Jun 20, 2018 #7

jua wrote: Do you have any references to those operations? I'd not heard about anyone operating under the ice, and I'd be particularly surprised if the USN did. The Russians might not have had a choice at points during the winter and I can maybe see an aggressive German captain using it as a tactic to intercept convoys to Murmask.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine

Scroll down to Polar Operations.
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Joined: 3:53 PM - Mar 01, 2005

4:19 AM - Jun 21, 2018 #8

Polar operations
  • 1903 – Simon Lake submarine Protector surfaced through ice off Newport, Rhode Island.[37]
  • 1930 – USS O-12 operated under ice near Spitsbergen.[37]
  • 1937 – Soviet submarine Krasnogvardeyets operated under ice in the Denmark Strait.[37]
  • 1941–45 – German U-boats operated under ice from the Barents Sea to the Laptev Sea.[37]
  • 1946 – USS Atule used upward-beamed fathometer in Operation Nanook in the Davis Strait.[37]
  • 1946–47 – USS Sennet used under-ice sonar in Operation High Jump in the Antarctic.[37]
  • 1947 – USS Boarfish used upward-beamed echo sounder under pack ice in the Chukchi Sea.[37]
  • 1948 – USS Carp developed techniques for making vertical ascents and descents through polynyas in the Chukchi Sea.[37]
  • 1952 – USS Redfish used an expanded upward-beamed sounder array in the Beaufort Sea.[37]
  • 1954 – Commissioning of first nuclear-powered sub, USS Nautilus.
  • 1957 – USS Nautilus reached 87 degrees north near Spitsbergen.[37]
  • 3 August 1958 – Nautilus used an inertial navigation system to reach the North Pole.[37]
  • 17 March 1959 – USS Skate surfaced through the ice at the north pole.[37]
  • 1960 – USS Sargo transited 900 miles (1,400 km) under ice over the shallow (125 to 180 feet or 38 to 55 metres deep) Bering-Chukchi shelf.[37]
  • 1960 – USS Seadragon transited the Northwest Passage under ice.[37]
  • 1962 – Soviet November-class submarine K-3 Leninsky Komsomol reached the north pole.[37]
  • 1970 – USS Queenfish carried out an extensive undersea mapping survey of the Siberian continental shelf.[38]
  • 1971 – HMS Dreadnought reached the North Pole.[37]
  • USS Gurnard conducted three Polar Exercises: 1976 (with US actor Charlton Heston aboard); 1984 joint operations with USS Pintado; and 1990 joint exercises with USS Seahorse.[39]
  • 6 May 1986 – USS Ray, USS Archerfish and USS Hawkbill meet and surface together at the Geographic North Pole. First three-submarine surfacing at the Pole.[40]
  • 19 May 1987 – HMS Superb joined USS Billfish and USS Sea Devil at the North Pole.[41]
  • March 2007 – USS Alexandria participated in the Joint US Navy/Royal Navy Ice Exercise 2007 (ICEX-2007) in the Arctic Ocean with the Trafalgar-class submarine HMS Tireless.[42]
  • March 2009 – USS Annapolis took part in Ice Exercise 2009 to test submarine operability and war-fighting capability in Arctic conditions.[43]
There it is... the District of Columbia! You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.
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jua
Joined: 3:54 AM - Mar 17, 2005

1:43 PM - Jun 21, 2018 #9

I should have been more specific. I meant under ice operations specifically during WWII. Obviously there have been numerous operations post war, especially with nuclear subs where snorkeling is less of a life or death thing. But it appears there were some and I will research them further.
Cheers,
Josh

https://squidjigger.com
Josh@squidjigger.com
twitter: @squid_jigger
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Joined: 9:49 PM - Jan 06, 2014

7:18 PM - Aug 07, 2018 #10

I think I have a book at home (on travel at the moment) which should have some info - I'll try to remember to find it and at least post the book title. 
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