Switch King to Pacific Fleet and Kimmel to Atlantic Fleet

Have a tall tale? Possibly thoughts on a book? A great place to get a first impression of your idea.
Joined: July 8th, 2007, 8:30 pm

April 16th, 2018, 7:23 pm #21

I think I saw something at one point that suggested they could do broadside fairly late in the war in sheltered waters but it's been a while since I saw the issue discussed.  It may have been a topic over on the WW2 forum.
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Joined: January 14th, 2013, 4:04 pm

April 16th, 2018, 7:31 pm #22

Very interesting, I'll keep my eyes open.  I have something that talks about the Japanese refueling during the run towards Pearl Harbor but I don't remember what book it was in.  Maybe I'll run into it again one of these days.
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Joined: July 8th, 2007, 8:30 pm

April 16th, 2018, 7:43 pm #23

Might be in Shattered Sword.  j-aircraft might also have a thread in either the navy or everything else sub forum.
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Joined: January 14th, 2013, 4:04 pm

April 16th, 2018, 7:53 pm #24

I'll check that and Gorden Prange's book on Pearl Harbor.  Could have been that one too.  Hope I don't get sucked to re-reading the whole thing again lol
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Joined: May 8th, 2006, 7:32 pm

April 16th, 2018, 8:05 pm #25

foscadh wrote:I think you underestimate the difficulty of replenishing at sea.  Keeping hulls at sea is also not all that trivial especially with commercial aircraft flying around.

That was also only one of the reasons.  Things like id'ing transmissions from the carriers in Japanese home waters also made for a fair amount of complacency.
1.A. Not underestimating - am suggesting they could have had time to practice and there was no way the USN / RN would have known. And let's say 12 of 16 oilers could have been running in commercial service - hiding in plain sight - while the other 4 work with the task forces. So then capacity to go anywhere is created, even if not easy. No one says they were lousy seamen. 

1.B. And this possibility - the IJN was doing lots of things they didn't think possible -  DID give the allies second thoughts about where the KB or an IJN landing force could possibly go such as Samoa, Ceylon, Mauritius, etc.

2. Agreed there were many reasons for US and UK complacency. That's just the old intel problem of seeing/hearing what you expect. After PH, Force Z, etc., there was a lot of belated concern about what the IJN might be able to do.  (They didn't know how many oilers the IJN did or did not have, but they had to allow for possibilities previously unknown.)
Interception at Sea https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warships1discussionboards/interception-at-sea-chapter-1-contact-t36949.html
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Joined: July 8th, 2007, 8:30 pm

April 16th, 2018, 8:05 pm #26

there are worse things that cold happen.

*** edit for ***
The above in reference to Hark's post about rereading Shattered Sword
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Joined: January 14th, 2013, 4:04 pm

April 16th, 2018, 9:49 pm #27

oh hell yes, and Gordon Prange and John Lundstrom.  Pure gold.
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Joined: December 24th, 2006, 4:52 am

April 22nd, 2018, 3:11 pm #28

Hark wrote:
richard roper wrote: I'm sorry but FDR would not have allowed this, because he was provoking Japan to make an attack as a mans of entering the war.
Silly nonsense.
I'm a Troll, foldiwolll.  I'm a Troll foldiwoll,  

unfortunately this was exactly the scheme of FDR  to resolve his problem with Isolationist  sentiment in America and public opinion.

Marshall as army secretary wrote to him 3 months before the attack and advised him a provocation must be made to get the Japanese to attack.

FDR replied this had been arranged.

His objective was to get America into war with Germany.

There is the story of Cordlell Hull, the secretary of state found drunk by 3 State Dept officials after a parks policeman requested their help with a piece of paper in his hand and saying " but I was told negotiations would continue.  The young girl female member realised it was the telegram of the attack, She later has a distinguished career.

There is a considerable literature on the subject.
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Joined: April 10th, 2005, 2:54 pm

April 22nd, 2018, 3:21 pm #29

richard roper wrote:
There is a considerable literature on the subject.
Most of which are full of falsehoods and distortions that no one but complete fools believe - you know, like the nonsense about transmissions from imaginary radio operators as Kido Butai sailed to Hawaii or how a vote in Congress that actually passed by dozens of votes was claimed to have only passed by one.
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Joined: January 14th, 2013, 4:04 pm

April 22nd, 2018, 3:21 pm #30

There is a considerable literature on the subject of ancient astronauts too.
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