Northern Ireland continues to be part of the EU Customs Union?

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ChrisPat
Joined: 13 Nov 2008, 22:19

04 Dec 2017, 17:28 #11

Likely an earlier and more peaceful end to slavery in British America; what happens down in the French south might be "interesting".
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
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IcelofAngeln
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:24

04 Dec 2017, 17:31 #12

Britain was a maritime Great Power in 1775 and I don't see how keeping eastern North America would have lessened that status! The most that can be said is that there would have been little incentive to ship undesirables to Australia, so that bit of the Empire might not have come about.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy."

--Ambrose Bierce
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IcelofAngeln
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:24

04 Dec 2017, 17:35 #13

ChrisPat wrote: Likely an earlier and more peaceful end to slavery in British America; what happens down in the French south might be "interesting".
I dunno.  If this alternate history occurred on the lines I laid out above (the Colonies are self-governing and not subject to Westminster), I don't see how the dynamic of slavery and its political consequences would have been any simpler- indeed much harder, since there would be no central American government and nobody to tell the slave states to stop it (aside from banning the *international* slave trade, which historically was done by the US at the same time as the UK anyway).
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy."

--Ambrose Bierce
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Cody2
Joined: 19 Jan 2011, 23:33

04 Dec 2017, 23:00 #14

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ChrisPat
Joined: 13 Nov 2008, 22:19

05 Dec 2017, 00:52 #15

I meant if Britain and her American colonies continued as some kind of joint arrangement Britain would become less important in the whole over a longish time.  Depends on how the colonies develop and expand of course.
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
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Wolfman21
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 08:06

07 Dec 2017, 14:11 #16

IcelofAngeln wrote: The issue of immigration in the first instance was the lack of legal, not physical barriers: currently, anyone with an EU passport can enter the UK and stay as long as they like.  That includes of course those who became "citizens" of the EU upon their arrival from Syria six months ago. The massive (and turtle-slow) customs stations at Dover and Heathrow couldn't do a damn thing about any of them.

NI is not exactly on the main line from Calais; while certainly there will be some undesirables who fly into Shannon and make their way north, it's not like they can just hop a lorry in France.  During all the years we had an open border with Canada, very few wetbacks took advantage of it.
Sorry, there are a number of errors in here. First off, the UK is not a member of the Schengen accord, so automatic entry was and is out. Refugees and other migrants into the EU become citizens of a member state-if at all-after a decade or so. Before that they usually have restrictions on their travel and where they can live. The old camps in Calais were a sign how easy it was for such foreigners to enter the UK-not.

The problem in the UK with foreigners are EU-citizens who moved-legally and according the treaty. Most of these were Eastern Europeans, mostly poles. And that was seen as a problem by a lot of people, not some more muslims from somewhere. The UK surely has enough of these, but these are mostly from their old colonies such as Pakistan.

https://majorityrights.com/weblog/comme ... sh_problem
https://www.politico.eu/article/poles-i ... ous-offer/
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IcelofAngeln
Joined: 21 Nov 2010, 00:24

07 Dec 2017, 15:13 #17

Correct: the UK is not part of Schengen.  That of course in no way affects the UK's ability to negotiate bilateral open- or semi- open borders with other nations, namely Ireland.  The present border arrangement was created by the Good Friday Accords, not Schengen or the EU. Brexit doesn't alter that situation one bit.
"There are four types of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy."

--Ambrose Bierce
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ChrisPat
Joined: 13 Nov 2008, 22:19

07 Dec 2017, 15:43 #18

Kerrect; pro and anti Brexiteers running off at the mouth about nothing to do with it.
Wolfman - Getting from Calais to UK illegally isn't easy but it is possible, again Brexit makes no difference you are right.  The big EU immigration idea that mattered in the Brexit vote was the idea of all the EU's illegal immigrants being made legal and shared out.

Reducing simple illegal immigration to the UK rests on making life in the UK less attractive to an illegal.  The key draws to UK are;
Moving into Europe doesn't actually deliver the promise so the hopeful ones continue west.  Not much we can do about being almost the farthest west.
English is the most common second language in the world.  Not much we can do about that either.
UK does not require people to produce proof of identity on demand from or in any interaction with the authorities.  We could deal with that but only if for once we ignore folklore and bullshit.

The key draw to the first world is a relatively better life.  Try importing cheap product into the EU legally instead of illegally importing workers to produce expensive products to prop up EU industries.  Moroccan fruit and veg for one example.
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
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Throd
Joined: 18 Jan 2007, 06:06

07 Dec 2017, 16:43 #19

UK draws
You have missed out the fact that many migrants have family already here and want to join them.
The Calais camps would have grown much bigger if the pressure had not been controlled by migrants eventually getting into the UK. I suspect there was a considerable turn over.
I would like to know how many and who are in the UK illegally, hence my desire for identity cards. However knowing someone should not be here is very different from removing them. 
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Throd
Joined: 18 Jan 2007, 06:06

07 Dec 2017, 16:50 #20

The problem is less the Poles but the Romanians and Albanians, especially the Roma, who are problem throughout Europe. The Romanians seem to be a major player here in the sex trade whilst the Albanians are major in the sex trade. What with terrorism etc the UK police seem overstretched. This is a bad time for budget cuts.
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