Joined: 7:26 PM - Sep 23, 2014

1:10 AM - May 17, 2018 #281

sergeante wrote: You pretty much have to be a cardinal and arcbishop of a big city to be in with the elites in the West these days. Otherwise, not so much. And the budhha rejected his socially elite origins. Care to try again?
So you agree that the highest levels of the Catholic hierarchy are part of the elites (which was my point), you agree that Siddhartha Gautama was an elite (which was my point), and you don't contest that the Roman priests or the head of the CoE were/are elites.  I don't think I need to try again, since you have conceded all my points.  Would you care to try again?
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Joined: 9:14 PM - Sep 27, 2011

1:13 AM - May 18, 2018 #282

Missing the point entirely. Very, very few Roman Catholic administrators are in the social elite. The overwhelming majority of the clergy, the ones that actually teach the religion and serve the flock, are highly non-elite. In terms of Christian doctrine, the final prophet/teacher explicitly removed the rich and the priesthood from the center of things.

The buddha may have started out a prince, but he very intentionally took religion out of the social elite, for doctrinal reasons very similar to those of Jesus.

The mixture of church and state in the West was a phase -- a long one, but still just a phase -- that is over. Buddhism never became a piece of the state.
Up and forward on the starboard side, down and aft on the port. 

The question of authority stalks the de-religionist project. (Paul Vander Klay)
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Joined: 7:26 PM - Sep 23, 2014

2:51 AM - May 18, 2018 #283

sergeante wrote: Missing the point entirely. Very, very few Roman Catholic administrators are in the social elite. The overwhelming majority of the clergy, the ones that actually teach the religion and serve the flock, are highly non-elite. In terms of Christian doctrine, the final prophet/teacher explicitly removed the rich and the priesthood from the center of things.

The buddha may have started out a prince, but he very intentionally took religion out of the social elite, for doctrinal reasons very similar to those of Jesus.

The mixture of church and state in the West was a phase -- a long one, but still just a phase -- that is over. Buddhism never became a piece of the state.
None of this addresses my point, so you have, indeed, missed it entirely.
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Joined: 9:14 PM - Sep 27, 2011

2:41 PM - May 18, 2018 #284

The point I was addressing was your assertion that the interests of religion are hardly distinguishable from the interests of the social elites, and that the "priestly class" was mostly made up of social elites. You threw up Roman Catholic hierarchy and the buddha as examples. I invalidated those examples, both doctrinally and practically.
Up and forward on the starboard side, down and aft on the port. 

The question of authority stalks the de-religionist project. (Paul Vander Klay)
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Joined: 7:26 PM - Sep 23, 2014

5:21 PM - May 18, 2018 #285

sergeante wrote: The point I was addressing was your assertion that the interests of religion are hardly distinguishable from the interests of the social elites, and that the "priestly class" was mostly made up of social elites. You threw up Roman Catholic hierarchy and the buddha as examples. I invalidated those examples, both doctrinally and practically.
Yes, I was pretty sure you hadn't really read what I said, and this confirms it. You are arguing against a straw man.  Good luck with that.
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Joined: 9:14 PM - Sep 27, 2011

5:32 PM - May 18, 2018 #286

Not arguing against a straw man. Arguing the point you apparently tried to make. If the appearance detected is not your point, please try making it again, in a way that it can be accurately interpretted.
Up and forward on the starboard side, down and aft on the port. 

The question of authority stalks the de-religionist project. (Paul Vander Klay)
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Joined: 7:26 PM - Sep 23, 2014

9:46 PM - May 18, 2018 #287

sergeante wrote: Not arguing against a straw man. Arguing the point you apparently tried to make. If the appearance detected is not your point, please try making it again, in a way that it can be accurately interpretted.
Sorry, I teach people to comprehend and analyze reading for a living.  I don't do it for free.  If you can't do that, you are on your own.
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Joined: 4:04 PM - Jan 14, 2013

9:49 PM - May 18, 2018 #288

lol, good one Joe.  I love a good nerf ball fight and over such high stakes!
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Joined: 9:14 PM - Sep 27, 2011

9:58 PM - May 18, 2018 #289

Joe Steel wrote:
Sorry, I teach people to comprehend and analyze reading for a living.  I don't do it for free.  If you can't do that, you are on your own.
Sorry, I've already been taught. I've always gotten As in English, both literature and composition, through college. If your point is incomprehensible at that level of competence, you're either an intellectual astronaut or just not communicating. Which?
Up and forward on the starboard side, down and aft on the port. 

The question of authority stalks the de-religionist project. (Paul Vander Klay)
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Joined: 4:04 PM - Jan 14, 2013

10:03 PM - May 18, 2018 #290

Wow, direct hit with a cotton ball!
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