Joined: 10:19 PM - Nov 13, 2008

2:30 PM - Apr 16, 2018 #11

Yebbut.
Does it need four or does one leave her a target for conventional bombs at your leisure?
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 12:37 PM - Dec 25, 2004

8:42 PM - Aug 06, 2018 #12

Had to go look it up. The missile in question was a high speed sub-sonic cruise missile. It has semi-active homing after inertial guidance with mid course corrections. Could the Dutch jam the guidance system.  I guess some fighters would stay back to defend against the missiles while others would either attack the missiles mid-course, or attack the bombers to force them to break their target illumination.  

I have another question: What happens if they shoot down a Tu-16 and capture a crew of Soviet "advisor". Hold them incognito then march them down main street to the Soviet Embassy in Amsterdam in Soviet dress uniforms in front of tv cameras with a band playing and then ask the Soviet ambassador to come out and take into the embassy.
Ride Lyft.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 10:19 PM - Nov 13, 2008

10:38 PM - Aug 06, 2018 #13

Against the Law of Armed Conflict to parade PWs for propaganda.  As evidence of someone else's breach of LoAC, hmm, the lawyers would have opinions.
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
Quote
Like
Share

ADP
Joined: 3:42 PM - Jul 13, 2012

11:19 PM - Aug 06, 2018 #14

He wouldn't actually be a POW however.  More like a "guest" of the Dutch Government.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 10:19 PM - Nov 13, 2008

1:18 AM - Aug 07, 2018 #15

Combatant, captured.  Even if rescued from sharks the conventions say the same thing.
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 10:19 PM - Nov 13, 2008

1:19 AM - Aug 07, 2018 #16

To repeat the earlier question, what sort of shape might KD be in after one hit?
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 10:23 PM - Oct 20, 2005

12:10 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #17

With a range of 90 miles and speed of Mach 0.9, would the Dutch have any chance of detecting incoming Kennels, let alone the Badgers carrying them?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 10:23 PM - Oct 20, 2005

12:44 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #18

The interest here from an RN perspective is how would a slightly modernised Majestic cope with modern jet bombers with Mig 15 sized unpiloted kamakazes? Thinking here about Victorious off Lombok and the debate about Hermes forcing Tiran during the 67 war. The argument (according to Grove) was that the small RN carriers would be ineffective against Soviet weapons and therefore what was the point of the expense? Was this a victory for the USSR without a shot being fired?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 10:19 PM - Nov 13, 2008

3:40 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #19

There comes a stage when a small air force on a floating airfield cannot defeat a larger on on several shore fields.
The spread of such air arms in the hands of hostile or at least not friendly powers restricted the utility of all carriers; it didn't eliminate it.
For a start such a carrier could deploy a lot of ASW helos and a few fighters to keep off MPA based a long way away.
If Hermes couldn't force the Straits of Tiran could Ark Royal even after Phantomisation?
If not why Phantoms at a forecast cost of all the smaller carriers and an actual one of all FAA fixed wing aviation after less than a decade?
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 6:26 PM - Feb 22, 2007

4:42 PM - Aug 09, 2018 #20

...because there is a phenomenal increase in air defence capacity between Sea Hawk, Sea Vixen and Phantom, particularly against a Tu16-type large, high-altitude, subsonic target.
Quote
Like
Share