Joined: October 30th, 2016, 6:26 am

May 16th, 2018, 4:02 pm #21

foscadh wrote:
Dilandu wrote: ...
 1) No armor of rational thickness could survive the impact of supersonic missile, that hit as the 3-4 Mach. Seriously - on this speed, the missile warhead have the kinetic energy of battleship shell fired point-blank!
...
That depends a lot on the missile structure.  Many/most missiles would breakup upon impact with heavy armor if they are not designed to penetrate it.  If their warhead is HE they might not do all that much damage. 
Frankly, on supersonic impact at Mach 3-4 velocity (nearly 1 km/s) - it didn't matter. The structure of missile would not break fast enough to not punch through the plate. The fuel in missile's tanks would also work as structural element, due to kinetic energy.
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Joined: July 8th, 2007, 8:30 pm

May 16th, 2018, 4:28 pm #22

Actually yes it does matter.  If you look at AP rounds even they have velocity intervals over which they will break up upon impact with some armors.  Mach 3-4 is not out of the range of standard AP rounds and well under APFSDS rounds or consider that battleship shells had muzzle velocities on the order of Mach 2-3 and HE rounds did break up on impact with battleship armor.  Missiles are typically longer and more fragile than HE rounds I believe.
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Joined: October 30th, 2016, 6:26 am

May 16th, 2018, 4:48 pm #23

foscadh wrote: Actually yes it does matter.  If you look at AP rounds even they have velocity intervals over which they will break up upon impact with some armors.  Mach 3-4 is not out of the range of standard AP rounds and well under APFSDS rounds or consider that battleship shells had muzzle velocities on the order of Mach 2-3 and HE rounds did break up on impact with battleship armor.  Missiles are typically longer and more fragile than HE rounds I believe.
Not out of range, yes. Point-blank range. On anything more than 10000 meters, the velocity dropped below 1,75 Mach.
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Joined: July 8th, 2007, 8:30 pm

May 16th, 2018, 5:25 pm #24

I believe that there's some evidence of one or more of Kirishima's 14" HE rounds breaking up on SoDak's armor.  8" rounds definitely did and the range was under 10,000 yards.
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Joined: May 5th, 2018, 1:11 pm

May 19th, 2018, 11:02 pm #25

One MK 48. Thats all it would take
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emc
Joined: May 12th, 2004, 9:51 am

May 21st, 2018, 9:49 am #26

If something is moving fast enough -- which is two or three times the speed of sound in steel -- the material properties of the impactor stop being important.

The speed of sound in steel is something like 5,000 meters per second. Of course, if the impactor has enough kinetic energy, it's likely to cause spalling or just cause damage from the impact. 
This is not a signature.
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Joined: November 13th, 2008, 10:19 pm

May 21st, 2018, 2:11 pm #27

People seem to be determined to destroy the ship in one spectacular event.  Why?
Perfectly easy to take away the self defence, propellers and rudders with small PGMs then do whatever you like.
"Be harmonious, enrich the soldiers, and scorn all other men"

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster himself."

"We take pride in the terminatory service we provide"
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Joined: July 8th, 2007, 8:30 pm

May 21st, 2018, 7:30 pm #28

emc wrote: If something is moving fast enough -- which is two or three times the speed of sound in steel -- the material properties of the impactor stop being important.

The speed of sound in steel is something like 5,000 meters per second. Of course, if the impactor has enough kinetic energy, it's likely to cause spalling or just cause damage from the impact. 
What does the speed of sound in steel have to do with your argument.  The speed of sound in air is around a bit around 330 m/sec depending on air conditions.  Whether or not the material properties of the impactor are important or not depends on both the object being impacted and the velocity.  The fact that the missile is an extended non rigid body mean that the impulse is going to be less than say a shell moving at the same speed.  Depending on the mass, velocity, and the object hit spalling and shock damage are possible.  However  during ODS M1's were hit by Sabot rounds with velocities that may have been in excess of Mach 4 and didn't even realize they were hit until inspected after that action.  Now these rounds were obviously less massive than the missile but the Abrams is quite a bit less massive than a battleship and sabot rounds are rigid and smaller in diameter.  Your assumption remains unproven.
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ADP
Joined: July 13th, 2012, 3:42 pm

May 21st, 2018, 8:53 pm #29

I believe that his point is that a Mach 4 missile is not going fast enough to penetrate a battleship's steel armour, contrary to Dilandu's assertion, and in agreement with yours.
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Joined: January 8th, 2011, 7:36 pm

May 22nd, 2018, 4:29 pm #30

GrandGulf wrote: One MK 48. Thats all it would take
Good to have you back, Fermi.
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