Yeghrdut monastery

Yeghrdut monastery

Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 11:17 pm

April 3rd, 2012, 11:41 pm #1

Hi, I am trying to locate the exact position of a monastery called Yeghrdut or Erghduti that once existed on the southern edge of the plain of Mush, just south of the Eastern Euphrates.

Here is the Wikipedia entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeghrdut_monastery>

The coordinates given in the Wiki entry take you to a hillside without any trace of a building structure or boundary wall.

Take a look: 38.7834°N 41.2590°E

I want to pin down the site better, so have ordered:

Hamazasp Oskean (or Oskian or Voskian), Taron-Turuberani vankere (The
Monasteries of Taron-Turuberan) Vienna: Mekhitarist Press, 1953

This apparently contains more information on the site.

The following Thierry reference also has more information:

Thierry J. M., Eastern Turkey, archeological journey of life, travel diaries "Monument", Yearbook 1, E., 1987.

However, I cannot find this title among his bibliography at:

http://www.acam-france.org/bibliographi ... jeanmichel

Any one out there able to lay their hands on either the Thierry reference or any better information on the monastery?

The Wiki coordinates fall to the west of the modern village of Gudumlu, although this was almost entirely destroyed in 1993, and residents there today are unaware of any nearby monastery ruins. I have tried also at another local village Kizilagac, a little to the east, asking the same question, with the same response. No monastery known nearby, other than the ruins of a so-called "Red Church" (dera sor) somewhere to the east of Kizilagac.

Kizilagac apparently derives its names from Kizilxac, meaning Red Cross, although why no one seems to know. Yet it does appear to suggest the presence of an Armenian church foundation.

An "Armenian" mill and dam exists on the Kizilagac stream a km or so south of the village, and this too is likely to have been connected to a monastery nearby.

Any help appreciated.

Andrew
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VirtualAni
VirtualAni

April 7th, 2012, 8:30 pm #2

But I was not successful. I was intending to walk there from Mush, along the top of the hillsides that border the sourthern edge of the Mush plain, but heavy rain made me turn back. At the time I assumed that the "Red Church" (or Red Monastery) was Yeghrdut monastery. I do not know the location of the monastery but 38.7761948505, 41.3273423734 might be it (although the orientation is slightly off an east-west direction). 38.7640397182, 41.3046379778 also looks interesting - it appears to be a rectangular enclosure with some structures on the north and south sides, and the shaddow suggests a substantial wall.
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Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 11:17 pm

April 8th, 2012, 5:58 pm #3

Hi,

Many thanks for your response, and for the coordinates. I had noticed the ruin east of Kizilagac, but not the one to its SSW. Both measure between 25-30 m in length, and whereas this might be close to the size of a church, they cannot be monasteries in themselves. If not more recent Kurdish ruins, they might be outlying chapels or barns attached to a nearby monastery.

Have you any information at all about the Red Monastery?

Any help in all or any of these queries is appreciated.

Andrew
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Researcher
Researcher

April 10th, 2012, 1:44 pm #4

Hi, I am trying to locate the exact position of a monastery called Yeghrdut or Erghduti that once existed on the southern edge of the plain of Mush, just south of the Eastern Euphrates.

Here is the Wikipedia entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeghrdut_monastery>

The coordinates given in the Wiki entry take you to a hillside without any trace of a building structure or boundary wall.

Take a look: 38.7834°N 41.2590°E

I want to pin down the site better, so have ordered:

Hamazasp Oskean (or Oskian or Voskian), Taron-Turuberani vankere (The
Monasteries of Taron-Turuberan) Vienna: Mekhitarist Press, 1953

This apparently contains more information on the site.

The following Thierry reference also has more information:

Thierry J. M., Eastern Turkey, archeological journey of life, travel diaries "Monument", Yearbook 1, E., 1987.

However, I cannot find this title among his bibliography at:

http://www.acam-france.org/bibliographi ... jeanmichel

Any one out there able to lay their hands on either the Thierry reference or any better information on the monastery?

The Wiki coordinates fall to the west of the modern village of Gudumlu, although this was almost entirely destroyed in 1993, and residents there today are unaware of any nearby monastery ruins. I have tried also at another local village Kizilagac, a little to the east, asking the same question, with the same response. No monastery known nearby, other than the ruins of a so-called "Red Church" (dera sor) somewhere to the east of Kizilagac.

Kizilagac apparently derives its names from Kizilxac, meaning Red Cross, although why no one seems to know. Yet it does appear to suggest the presence of an Armenian church foundation.

An "Armenian" mill and dam exists on the Kizilagac stream a km or so south of the village, and this too is likely to have been connected to a monastery nearby.

Any help appreciated.

Andrew
From a Soviet Armenian text:

Located in a picturesque spot 20-22km west of Mush, surrounded on three sides by forested hills, and on the north side there were little gullies/canyons (dzorakner).

From the monastery the following were visible: Aradzani and Meghraget (rivers I assume), S. Karapet Monastery, a few villages, Byurakn, Nemrut, Grgur, Sipan, and in the further distance, the gray top of Masis (Mount Ararat). That last one seems like a stretch, but that's what it says.
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Joined: April 3rd, 2012, 11:17 pm

April 10th, 2012, 6:25 pm #5

Hi,

I really appreciate the additional information on the setting for the Yeghrdut monastery. Is there anything else that you written source has which might throw any light on its whereabouts, function and traditions. We might then be able to tie this up with information on known ruins in the vicinity, which so far do not reveal any monastery sized structures.

Apparently, there is an entry for Yeghrdut in:

"Illustrated dictonary of Taron-Turuberan's monasteries, Eprikyan S., 1953"

However, I have been unable to track down a copy of this work, which I can only assume was written in Armenian.

Any help appreciated.

Regards,

Andrew
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Researcher
Researcher

April 12th, 2012, 11:17 am #6

Hi Andrew - I got my hands on the Taron-Turuberan book you mentioned. There are 14 pages on this monastery. I've added the description of the location onto Armeniapedia, but I don't know that it sheds much more light on this. Maybe in google earth (using the terrain feature) it would be possible with all these random bits of information to find the spot.

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?t ... _Monastery

There is more info about the monastery in both texts, but it's a fair bit of text. Can you by chance read Armenian?

Raffi
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April 12th, 2012, 11:59 am #7

Having taken my own advice to check Google Earth, this is what looked somewhat promising to me.

38.752988° 41.346242° - forested canyon where three sides are hills, and one side is open to the Mush plain, and seems like it should have a view of Mt. Sipan as well. There appear to be ruins in this spot, as well as both up and down the road from here. It seems heavily visited from the look of the road. Driving from Mush would be about 20km.

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VirtualAni
VirtualAni

April 12th, 2012, 5:00 pm #8

This information was sent to me. 38°45'2.75"N 41°20'26.12"E

Having walked along the top of the hills between Mush and to within about 10km of this location, I can confirm that what the translated text on Armeniapedia says about the dramatic scenery is right. There are many deep valleys, surrounded by pine forests, the area has an almost alpine feel to it, and the air is much clearer and sharper than down in the plain. Maybe "the gray top of Masis" was actually Suphan Dagi.
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April 12th, 2012, 5:35 pm #9

My guess was (only) a few hundred meters off, which really is a testament to the descriptions... but I didn't notice the rather obvious ruins. Thanks for the coordinates, I'll add it to the page. -Raffi
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April 13th, 2012, 7:42 am #10

Hi, I am trying to locate the exact position of a monastery called Yeghrdut or Erghduti that once existed on the southern edge of the plain of Mush, just south of the Eastern Euphrates.

Here is the Wikipedia entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeghrdut_monastery>

The coordinates given in the Wiki entry take you to a hillside without any trace of a building structure or boundary wall.

Take a look: 38.7834°N 41.2590°E

I want to pin down the site better, so have ordered:

Hamazasp Oskean (or Oskian or Voskian), Taron-Turuberani vankere (The
Monasteries of Taron-Turuberan) Vienna: Mekhitarist Press, 1953

This apparently contains more information on the site.

The following Thierry reference also has more information:

Thierry J. M., Eastern Turkey, archeological journey of life, travel diaries "Monument", Yearbook 1, E., 1987.

However, I cannot find this title among his bibliography at:

http://www.acam-france.org/bibliographi ... jeanmichel

Any one out there able to lay their hands on either the Thierry reference or any better information on the monastery?

The Wiki coordinates fall to the west of the modern village of Gudumlu, although this was almost entirely destroyed in 1993, and residents there today are unaware of any nearby monastery ruins. I have tried also at another local village Kizilagac, a little to the east, asking the same question, with the same response. No monastery known nearby, other than the ruins of a so-called "Red Church" (dera sor) somewhere to the east of Kizilagac.

Kizilagac apparently derives its names from Kizilxac, meaning Red Cross, although why no one seems to know. Yet it does appear to suggest the presence of an Armenian church foundation.

An "Armenian" mill and dam exists on the Kizilagac stream a km or so south of the village, and this too is likely to have been connected to a monastery nearby.

Any help appreciated.

Andrew
Hi Andrew - I've added more info about the monastery on the Armeniapedia page. Very interesting history and legends.

VirtualAni - I'd love any feedback you might have on the exact locations of some of the other monasteries here:http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?t ... _in_Turkey (I usually specify when the location is not exact)

If I could get your email address, it would be great to be able to exchange notes now and then.

raffi ((-a-t-)) cilicia.com
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