A.Schauer
A.Schauer

September 14th, 2015, 9:37 pm #11

I guess Thierry is a worthwhile investment then.
It seems accessible enough. I remember Cuneo being quite interesting, but saw it only in a specialized library once. Where the heck CAN you find that book??

Seems like a few books like that by Cuneo and Robert Edwards' fortifications of Armenian Cilicia are next to impossible to find.

Just on the topic - I am wondering if you guys can help on these:

1. Can't seem to find this article either - guessing its the automative piece on Khorakert?
Scalesse, T, 'Il convento di Xorakert', Primo Simposio Internazionale di Arte Armena: Atti, (1978), 619-640.
2. I recall in revue etudes Armeniens something on a wonderful pagan temple somewhere in the forests of tavush (thierry?) anyone recall the name or location?

3. Ive seen some older high res photos of varzahan online showing inscriptions on walls - is it certain they had none?
Hi there,
by chance I managed to get the Atti of the Primo Simposio Internazionale di Arte Armena (one large volume) and even the 4 vols of the second symposium (which took place in Erewan in 1978). It seems that on abebooks a second hand book seller in Berlin presently sells the private library of Prof. Wolfram Kleiss, the former director of the German Archaeologic Institute's branch in Teheran. I purchased some items but there are quite some rare books left (search for the keywords 'Wolfram Kleiss' on abebooks.de and you'll get over 1,600 entries - for reasons I do not understand abebooks.com offers far less hits).
In the Atti of the Primo Simposio Internazionale di Arte Armena one can find the article of Tommaso Scalesse 'Il Convento Di Xorakert'. Although it covers pages 619 - 640 it has just 6 pages of text and the remainder are plans, drawings and photos. As I primarily focus on Armenian architecture in nowadays Turkey I can't say if this article is "the automative piece on Khorakert". And as it is written in Italian I can't read it really well, so I do not want to judge about the article's scholarly quality.
All the best
A.Schauer
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Anonymous
Anonymous

September 19th, 2015, 11:58 am #12

So, 2 comments.
Among those books I saw thrle Dvin basilica book and also some other basilicas.
In italian- these the ones?

Also- would it be too agressive to ask for a scan of te article on Khorakert?
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VirtualAni
VirtualAni

September 19th, 2015, 4:39 pm #13

I noticed the Italian book - seems overpriced even though it is hard to find. I think I saw one of the soviet-era books on the Dvin excavations there as well. However, for the soviet ones there is more than one volume of it, and you can find them on ebay much cheaper - there are booksellers in Armenia on ebay who will find you the series. Same for the book in Russian on Zvartnots that is also there. The various language editions of "Armenian Architecture IV-XVIII Century" are just an exhibition catalogues. I'd love to have a copy of the other Italian book "Aisleless churches and chapels in Armenia from the IV to the VII century" but it is far too expensive at 132euro I think. The "Kirchen und Moscheen in Armenien und Kurdistan" book is a reprint - with very poor quality reproductions of Bachmann's photographs. And again, I think, overpriced. The 1968 issue of Die Karawane might be interesting.
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A.Schauer
A.Schauer

September 19th, 2015, 9:00 pm #14

Concerning the prices: I also think that most of the prices are to high. But I do not blame anybody for that because these items are quite scarce and probably no ordinary book seller has a precise idea about their market prices. I sent the book seller an email and offered him a reasonable price for the voumes I wanted to buy. He accepted and both of us are happy.
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A.Schauer
A.Schauer

September 19th, 2015, 9:04 pm #15

So, 2 comments.
Among those books I saw thrle Dvin basilica book and also some other basilicas.
In italian- these the ones?

Also- would it be too agressive to ask for a scan of te article on Khorakert?
Concerning your question about scanning the Xorakert article: As I do not have a scanner and all I could do is to take photos and share them. But to be honest, I don't know you and I am not keen on thinking about copy rights...
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Virtualani
Virtualani

March 13th, 2016, 10:19 pm #16

And when in Bayburt he took photographs of the castle walls and their inscriptions.

http://www.bayburtpostasi.com.tr/dosya/ ... h9775.html

http://www.bayburtmedya.com/orbelinin-1 ... lenimleri/

I think it inconceivable that he did not also take pictures of the churches at Varzahan. But I know of no such published photographs. Do they still exist somewhere? Perhaps the unattributed photos used in the Varzahan postcards were by Orbeli?
https://www.collectif2015.org/en/Le-Cou ... zahan.aspx

The Bachmann ones are the same as those used in the VirtualAni webpage (i.e., scanned from the book). However, the others seem to be the originals of the photographs reproduced by Strzygowski in his Die Baukunst der Armenier und Europa. They must have been the actual photographs Strzygowski possessed because the third photo has crop marks on it that crop it to match the image that appears in his book.
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Virtualani
Virtualani

April 23rd, 2016, 3:16 pm #17

Concerning the prices: I also think that most of the prices are to high. But I do not blame anybody for that because these items are quite scarce and probably no ordinary book seller has a precise idea about their market prices. I sent the book seller an email and offered him a reasonable price for the voumes I wanted to buy. He accepted and both of us are happy.
The leftovers are on ebay, seller is buchfundus-berlin. No reduction in prices though, and nothing much left that is Armenia related (mostly lots of Iran-related stuff). A lot of articles from the 2nd International Symposium on Armenian Art are being listed individually.
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VirtualAni
VirtualAni

January 10th, 2018, 12:45 pm #18

Concerning Thierry's monograph on Vaspurakan: I never tried to compile all the articles about Vaspurakan in the REA. As soon I realized he had published this compilation I decided to rather get a copy of that. Judging from the few examples I've got to compare I think that the monograph is the better choice as it presents the content in a more strucured manner and propably Thierry improved at least some of his initial mistakes. The pictures are in b/w only.

I always found it quite difficult to trace down all of Thierrys articels in all the periodicals he used. Have you ever tried to get your hands on Handes Amsorya? Or Bedi Kartlisa? Taking this into consideration I really appreciated that he published his "Monuments arméniens de Haute-Arménie". Basically it contains older articles and probably also a couple of unpublished findings. Thierry was born in 1916 and "Haute-Arménie" was published in 2005, hence it seems to be highly probable that he (or rather his publisher) used old material. Although this guy must have been a fanatic I can't imagine a almost 90 year old french guy scrutinizing remote areas in Anatolia...

For me Thierry is the most important guiding star whenever travelling in eastern Turkey. I do not expect to find any buildings, ruins, or remains in the same condition they were described decades ago (I regret that but have to accept sad reality). But due to the incredible zeal of Jean-Michel and Nicole Thierry I vistited dozens of places I would never have found on my own.

During the past 25 years I collected a vast stock of publications about Armenian, Georgian, Byzantine, and Assyrian Architecture, mainly in nowadays Turkey. Starting from Lynch, Bachmann, Strzygowski and some other scholars and travelers from the 19th and beginning 20th century there was a kind of boom in the 60ies and 70ies (at least concerning Armenian Architecture). I've got the impression that since that time more contemporary publications tend to reproduce basically older findings. I think that means that there are no more remote surprises left. The last one I read about was the quite significante Georgian church in the mountains above Dört Kilise that Bruno Baumgartner discovered in the 90ies...

All the best and thanks for all your efforts and passion with VirtualAni.

A.Schauer
First, a belated reply to the "I think that means that there are no more remote surprises left" - I think there probably are significant surprises left, but they will be connected to entire settlements or urban sites rather than individual monuments (take the Magazberd city site for example, as a published example), and also to the way sites relate to each other.

I finally got round to buying "Monuments arméniens de Haute-Arménie", but I have to say I found it disappointing. I’m not sure how much textual abridgment there is compared to the original articles, but the illustrations in this book are far inferior: photographs are small, dark, and monochrome; the architectural plans are so tiny they are insulting; maps are crudely drawn and sometimes nearly illegible (as if photocopies of photocopies of photocopies). Monuments not visited by Thierry but whose existence is known through pre-genocide texts are also mentioned, and listed individually. While this is useful it also confuses the purpose of the book - is it a detailed architectural description and analysis of surviving sites or a catalogue of everything that is known to have once existed. The book tries to do both. There is also the question about whether the medieval Armenian term “Bardzr Hayk” has relevance to the study or categorization of Armenian architecture.
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