What does the forum think about the proliferation of 'faded' inserts?

Vintage Rolex Discussion

What does the forum think about the proliferation of 'faded' inserts?

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 9th, 2012, 7:45 pm #1

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
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Joined: February 5th, 2011, 8:12 pm

August 9th, 2012, 8:08 pm #2

A faded out and in some cases totally unreadable bezel is more desirable? Don't know how this trend started but somewhere, some European collector dictated it as a "must have" just like "Patrizzi" dials and other IMperfections and the lemmings jumped on the bandwagon.

I have a late '60s MKIV Red Sub with a virtually perfect bezel, sans original tritium pearl (got it straight from first owner) and I love it and have zero desire for a faded out or "ghost" bezel. I know not everyone can get a hold of a pristine bezel from that era but I would have thought people would be going in that direction...not the total opposite way!

As long as there is a manufactured desire, the unscrupulous ones will crawl out from under their rocks to make a few bucks.

Since this sort of stuff is hard to police, it seems you have two choices: allowing the status quo and opening sellers to the scrutiny of this forum or ban the sale of bezels that are over a certain percentage "faded" just like the police when determining what is an illegal tint percentage on a car window. Very subjective.

My 2p.

Cheers
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Faz99Master
VRF Member
Joined: September 21st, 2006, 5:41 pm

August 9th, 2012, 8:24 pm #3

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
....with it's original insert having weathered the years gracefully. The proliferation of these parts on the market is quite alarming. What does it say about watches that suddenly appear on the sales board with these inserts? What else has been altered to hype up the value? We are seeing faded 16610/16600 inserts with 40 years of 'fade' built into them...Hmmmm.

As far as the sellers of these inserts are concerned, all I can say is they're a greedy bunch and unfortunately, the way the VRM is set up, not much can be done other than to force the sellers to disclose HOW these inserts turned up faded. Good luck in them being honest about it.


Cheers,
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Joined: May 28th, 2007, 7:51 pm

August 9th, 2012, 8:27 pm #4

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
a clean and new looking bezel but from the other hand I can pay top money for a naturally faded bezels if they are fully original as well I hate to see those faded junk that sometimes are offer for sale.
Let's be honest a vintage watch deserves a vintage bezel, period My2cents and forcing a bezel to look old or faded is not the best way and I will rather way for the right piece to come along

Godspeed

ag

Last edited by alexxxgil on August 9th, 2012, 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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seve1939
VRF Member
seve1939
VRF Member
Joined: October 12th, 2006, 4:29 pm

August 9th, 2012, 8:36 pm #5

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
faded then the Mods. should delete them. End of story.
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scottb2
scottb2

August 9th, 2012, 8:39 pm #6

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
for me it is personal preference as far as the faded and the browns etc - i will say this

sometimes i have seen pretty obviously faked inserts which even though they are not natural they are temping because you feel it will dress up or dress down your watch - i have tried my best to stay away from these - for instance - if i see a brown sub insert and the fonts are yellow, that is a dead giveaway for me that it has been aged in an hour rather than over years in the sun. If the front is completely worn to death and the back is like it rolled off the rolex assmbly line i would stay away and i have actually been the victim of this from a VFR member who i will not name as i am not going to sling mud for this.

in any event, there is something to be said about naturally faded inserts and if you have a few bezels to pop them into, you can drastically change the look of your watch to what you feel like and for me i like to have the options -

on another note - i have also now been looking for a like new straight up black MK-1 insert and they rarely come up so i would say that the real pot of gold for me now.

it seems like the faded ones are always on the move and someone is hiding all the realy meat and potatoes like new fat fonts MK-1!

i will also say this - if someone posts an obvious faker on the marker i would be of the opinion that the post should be deleted and noted right away - that would help slow this down and protect a lot of people

thanks
Last edited by Guest on August 9th, 2012, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fatboyharris
VRF Member
Joined: July 9th, 2004, 2:59 pm

August 9th, 2012, 8:53 pm #7

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
I believe you are absolutely correct to challenge the 'authenticity' of such components, but why just stop at faded bezels.

 It never ceases to amaze me the depths people will go to to make that extra buck.........................at the end of the day they are slowly but surely bringing the whole 'hobby' into disrepute, which may eventually back fire on them as it will be impossible to distinquish manufactured effect from genuine and as the market becomes flooded with  these items, the price premium for such items will surely become eroded.

I would suggest that the market place should be for complete watches only, no loose parts, dials etc less opportunity for taking advantage of others with what ever is the current 'in' thing. There are plenty of other forums and sales platforms available, that no-one will be disadvantaged.

I'm sure others will disagree, each to their own,  its good to see such a positive stand is being considered by VRF

regards

 

John

 

 

.

 
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Joined: December 31st, 2007, 3:13 pm

August 9th, 2012, 9:17 pm #8

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
I'd rather see more threads on the main board about the tell-tale signs of an artificially faded insert, and maybe some outing of repeat offenders.

I've only been involved in the vintage game for about four years, and this board and its search engine has been an incredibly powerful tool to keep from getting rooked. I would much prefer to be educated that protected - the latter is a losing battle, anyway.
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Giuseppe
Giuseppe

August 9th, 2012, 9:18 pm #9

faded then the Mods. should delete them. End of story.
+1 nt
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davemcdus
VRF Member
davemcdus
VRF Member
Joined: August 17th, 2011, 3:48 am

August 9th, 2012, 9:21 pm #10

The mods are having one of our interminable discussions about the direction of the forum and our current hot button issue is the sale of faded bezel inserts on our market. We are all of the opinion that the vast majority of these inserts are chemically altered to achieve the desired 'weathered' look that people are paying a premium for these days.

We have allowed the sale of these inserts because they are original Rolex parts and no one can actually say how the insert got faded (although sometimes you can still see the sandpaper marks). But, at the end of the day, most of the altered inserts are designed to fraudulently separate cash from unwary buyers.

We are very interested in the opinion of the forum regarding these inserts. It's hard to just outright ban the sale of these original Rolex inserts but we have visitors paying up to a 300 dollar premium for an overnight soak in some bleach or whatever they do. That must stop.

Please give us your thoughts on how to handle this.


.
The fact that there's a premium put on them seems silly to me. This is heightened by the fact that when I got into vintage watches about a year ago, the very first blog article I read online was on how to "age" your bezel insert. To me it's the same thing as paying extra for a watch with papers. It seems widely known that there are genuine "open" papers that can be easily punched and are good enough to fool even some who've been around for a while, and it's equally well known that genuine bezel inserts can be quickly aged. I suppose the bezel inserts aren't as close to fraud as the papers are, but either way I'd never pay the extra dough for a watch that had either.
As someone who is relatively new to this hobby and who still lacks the experience and expertise to spot every shady item, I suppose I'm the ideal target for these things, and that certainly gives one pause when considering a purchase. But I don't see how you guys could regulate it, as it seems hard to prove what's really legit since things age differently.
My only suggestion might be to put a "sticky" at the top of the market page, suggesting that new buyers take the time to read up on whatever item they're interested in finding, and suggesting they post it in the main forum for review by more experienced forum users. Maybe even a glossary detailing some common terminology, since it's obvious that a lot of really new people shop on the market page without ever using the forum.. That would seem to be a solid way of trying to protect everyone while at the same time deterring sellers from offering suspicious goods. On the other hand, maybe the veteran members would feel something like that would be hurtful to the status of the forum. Dunno, just my 2 cents. You guys who run this forum are awesome though, thanks!
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