The discussed Daytona's red dials

Vintage Rolex Discussion

The discussed Daytona's red dials

Joined: February 16th, 2011, 10:55 am

November 28th, 2011, 4:35 pm #1

Dear readers,
Mondani Editore a very interesting news for you about the Daytona Paul Newman red dials.
This topic created many discussions and doubts between collectors, dealers and in the specialized forums.
Somebody says that these dials are fake, somebody that they are original and they spend a fortune to have this type of watch with the red dial.
Osvaldo Patrizzi spoke to Singer & Cie SA, the company that produced the dials for Rolex in the past, and now we know the truth about this famous red dial.

This letter explains that Singer made an expertise of the  red/black Rolex Paul Newman dial of the ref. 6263 series No. 6625090 and the managing director affirms that this dial is original and was produced by Singer Ateliers in the Sixties.
Here you have the text in French written by the managing director of Singer & Cie SA.
We remind you that the original letter written by Singer will be published in the book Rolex Daytona Story, coming out in 2012 and already available for reservations.
Rolex Daytona Story will not be just the worlds biggest book on Rolex watches (together with Rolex Submariner Story and Collecting Rolex Milgauss, Turn-O-Graph, Yacht-Master, Explorer) but also the most important edition ever done on Rolex.All Rolex Daytona references will be presented with the dates of the beginning and end of production as wellas specifying all their main features: push-buttons, crown, bezel, dial, crystal, bracelets, graphic details of logos, writing and hallmarks.
Updated prices of all Daytonas are enclosed.Text of the letter written by Singer:
Messieurs,
Vousnous avez présenté ce jour un cadran ROLEX Paul Newman rouge/noir enexcellent état provenant de la montre référence 6263 no de série6625090.
Nous vous confirmons que ce cadran est bien un original sorti de nos ateliers dans les années 60.
Veuillez agréer, Messieurs, nos salutations distinguées.
Jean SINGER & Cie SA

Translation:

Dear Sir,
You presented us a Rolex Daytona Paul Newman dial rouge/noir in excellent condition, form the reference 6263 series number 6625090.
We confirm you that this dial is original, made in Singer ateiler in th Sixties.
Best regards
Jean SINGER & Cie SA
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Joined: February 1st, 2009, 1:18 pm

November 28th, 2011, 5:44 pm #2

Mr Patrizzi has done his best to confirm/ get confirmation for these dials for several years now.
With all due respect to Singer I challenge them or Osvaldo to produce a picture from lecture pre- 1993 that shows one of these red PN oyster dials or , for that matter, the 3 colour ROC Paul Newman dials!
All these dials( red and 3CROC's) have the same fonts on the text and numerals and same type of Singer signature on back of the dial plate. None(!) of the other dials Singer ever produced share these fonts or singer stamp to the dial plate!

In other words nice try on mr Patrizzis part but no serious collector or dealer is going to buy this story:(

I'm am sure however that the latest mondani book will be a great one and look forward to seeing it soon

Ciao, D
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Joined: October 13th, 2003, 5:24 pm

November 28th, 2011, 6:03 pm #3

Dear readers,
Mondani Editore a very interesting news for you about the Daytona Paul Newman red dials.
This topic created many discussions and doubts between collectors, dealers and in the specialized forums.
Somebody says that these dials are fake, somebody that they are original and they spend a fortune to have this type of watch with the red dial.
Osvaldo Patrizzi spoke to Singer & Cie SA, the company that produced the dials for Rolex in the past, and now we know the truth about this famous red dial.

This letter explains that Singer made an expertise of the  red/black Rolex Paul Newman dial of the ref. 6263 series No. 6625090 and the managing director affirms that this dial is original and was produced by Singer Ateliers in the Sixties.
Here you have the text in French written by the managing director of Singer & Cie SA.
We remind you that the original letter written by Singer will be published in the book Rolex Daytona Story, coming out in 2012 and already available for reservations.
Rolex Daytona Story will not be just the worlds biggest book on Rolex watches (together with Rolex Submariner Story and Collecting Rolex Milgauss, Turn-O-Graph, Yacht-Master, Explorer) but also the most important edition ever done on Rolex.All Rolex Daytona references will be presented with the dates of the beginning and end of production as wellas specifying all their main features: push-buttons, crown, bezel, dial, crystal, bracelets, graphic details of logos, writing and hallmarks.
Updated prices of all Daytonas are enclosed.Text of the letter written by Singer:
Messieurs,
Vousnous avez présenté ce jour un cadran ROLEX Paul Newman rouge/noir enexcellent état provenant de la montre référence 6263 no de série6625090.
Nous vous confirmons que ce cadran est bien un original sorti de nos ateliers dans les années 60.
Veuillez agréer, Messieurs, nos salutations distinguées.
Jean SINGER & Cie SA

Translation:

Dear Sir,
You presented us a Rolex Daytona Paul Newman dial rouge/noir in excellent condition, form the reference 6263 series number 6625090.
We confirm you that this dial is original, made in Singer ateiler in th Sixties.
Best regards
Jean SINGER & Cie SA
In memo, SINGER did not comment specifically on the print style..And how can Singer not unlike Rolex writting on their service write up under the dial description that the PN dial was an exotic dial form that corresponding era. As we all know, a lot of fake and redone PN dials got past Rolex service..

It is hard for me to believe that SINGER is a vintage dial print authorizing firm as no more as Rolex was. Singer can prove the dial plate was real, but can they unequivocally show evidence that the print is original to the dial plate? That memo is short and sweet for a reason. If Singer was a vintage dial print authorizing firm, we would have a hell of a long explanation with tons of hand painted renderings and printing plates and other hard to disprove facts..But 35 years ago..why would Singer as with many other watch supplier firms get into the vintage parts game as authenticators?

I bet all the PN related tools and support equipment for dial printing form the 1960's and 1970's is long gone in the dumpster of old.

"We confirm you that this dial is original, made in Singer atelier in the Sixties. "
Ok so the dial or in this case dial plate is original. But what other evidence has been written about the dial print?



Same case as with Rolex, Singer is a part's variation firm at best...Not a vintage dial print authenticator.

A

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Joined: January 17th, 2006, 5:05 pm

November 28th, 2011, 6:49 pm #4

cover their ass. It may well be these were made and smuggled out of Singer, but,
THEY WERE NEVER SOLD BY ROLEX.
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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 9:30 pm

November 29th, 2011, 11:35 am #5

Mr Patrizzi has done his best to confirm/ get confirmation for these dials for several years now.
With all due respect to Singer I challenge them or Osvaldo to produce a picture from lecture pre- 1993 that shows one of these red PN oyster dials or , for that matter, the 3 colour ROC Paul Newman dials!
All these dials( red and 3CROC's) have the same fonts on the text and numerals and same type of Singer signature on back of the dial plate. None(!) of the other dials Singer ever produced share these fonts or singer stamp to the dial plate!

In other words nice try on mr Patrizzis part but no serious collector or dealer is going to buy this story:(

I'm am sure however that the latest mondani book will be a great one and look forward to seeing it soon

Ciao, D
that will go on to add confusion to newbies for years to come.

Very bad show

---Perpetual Knowledge---
Last edited by fantastictime on November 29th, 2011, 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Perpetual Knowledge-
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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 9:30 pm

November 29th, 2011, 11:39 am #6

cover their ass. It may well be these were made and smuggled out of Singer, but,
THEY WERE NEVER SOLD BY ROLEX.
they are not due.





---Perpetual Knowledge---
-Perpetual Knowledge-
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Joined: October 13th, 2003, 5:24 pm

November 29th, 2011, 1:20 pm #7

that will go on to add confusion to newbies for years to come.

Very bad show

---Perpetual Knowledge---
with incorrect info..

And the worse part is, that new collectors use these books as a buying tool.

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/
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Joined: October 12th, 2006, 4:29 pm

November 29th, 2011, 4:56 pm #8

Dear readers,
Mondani Editore a very interesting news for you about the Daytona Paul Newman red dials.
This topic created many discussions and doubts between collectors, dealers and in the specialized forums.
Somebody says that these dials are fake, somebody that they are original and they spend a fortune to have this type of watch with the red dial.
Osvaldo Patrizzi spoke to Singer & Cie SA, the company that produced the dials for Rolex in the past, and now we know the truth about this famous red dial.

This letter explains that Singer made an expertise of the  red/black Rolex Paul Newman dial of the ref. 6263 series No. 6625090 and the managing director affirms that this dial is original and was produced by Singer Ateliers in the Sixties.
Here you have the text in French written by the managing director of Singer & Cie SA.
We remind you that the original letter written by Singer will be published in the book Rolex Daytona Story, coming out in 2012 and already available for reservations.
Rolex Daytona Story will not be just the worlds biggest book on Rolex watches (together with Rolex Submariner Story and Collecting Rolex Milgauss, Turn-O-Graph, Yacht-Master, Explorer) but also the most important edition ever done on Rolex.All Rolex Daytona references will be presented with the dates of the beginning and end of production as wellas specifying all their main features: push-buttons, crown, bezel, dial, crystal, bracelets, graphic details of logos, writing and hallmarks.
Updated prices of all Daytonas are enclosed.Text of the letter written by Singer:
Messieurs,
Vousnous avez présenté ce jour un cadran ROLEX Paul Newman rouge/noir enexcellent état provenant de la montre référence 6263 no de série6625090.
Nous vous confirmons que ce cadran est bien un original sorti de nos ateliers dans les années 60.
Veuillez agréer, Messieurs, nos salutations distinguées.
Jean SINGER & Cie SA

Translation:

Dear Sir,
You presented us a Rolex Daytona Paul Newman dial rouge/noir in excellent condition, form the reference 6263 series number 6625090.
We confirm you that this dial is original, made in Singer ateiler in th Sixties.
Best regards
Jean SINGER & Cie SA
What if dial is authentic? Yeh, I know show me proof. With so many PN's around and the Fact that they are so readily available from the expert sellers, I would wager many are fakes-- too well made for even you experts to know.
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Joined: February 1st, 2009, 1:18 pm

November 29th, 2011, 8:44 pm #9

"us experts" definitely don't know it all or we would've moved on to some other hobby or forum. The fun is in learning and discovering new things about vintage rolexes together. But when someone who has a lot financially at stake proclaims that a horse that was beat to death is suddenly alive again(AKA Red obviously wrong/fake PN dials, do a forum search to see why), then "we experts" should speak up and disagree in public don't you agree?

As for regular white/black PN's dials that are hard to spot as fakes , don't think so, but who knows. Some really good fakes might pop up soon and we'll have an answer for you

Best, D
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Joined: October 12th, 2006, 4:29 pm

November 29th, 2011, 9:53 pm #10

You experts say the same thing over and over. When you refer to Rolex making mistakes are you talking about the Lake making mistakes. Hardly ever see proof that a PN is authentic except that an expert seller says so. Regards
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