The abuse of the word "Tropical"...

Vintage Rolex Discussion

The abuse of the word "Tropical"...

Joined: September 21st, 2013, 2:46 pm

January 31st, 2017, 9:24 am #1

As I just wrote to Jacek on one of his offers on the VRM is that I believe that many dealers use the word "Tropical" wrongly. Naming heavily damaged dial tropical is wrong. Now we have come from so far and achieve international awareness with vintage Rolex, we all should be more careful in what is write. By naming anything faded dial "tropical" works at the end of the day against all of us.

The word tropical actually gets you more attention but at the same time confuses the market when they see a damaged dial instead of a nice faded tropical one. Why misleading a buyer when you want him to become your customer or friend?

- The tropical effect rarely occurs when a old Rolex dial is undamaged and worn back in the days in heavy sunlight and then got stored in a dark place for years. Something thats quite difficult to achieve and therefor super rare. Tropicals have undamaged original luminous and the dial changed color due to the UV rays and storage and the surface is still perfectly glossy...



- The shitage effect on Jaceks dial is merely a damaged dial done by a waterproof failure (when salt and/or chlorine water entered) after heavy use that destroyed the lacquer and all luminous. It's not rare and has nothing to do with tropical and this uploaded offer is a perfect example...



So I would love to see the VRF moderators adjust offers like Jaceks as it's not good for the vintage Rolex market we all worked so hard for in general as it's misleading.

It would be nice if everybody consider this next time when you describe your offers.

Thanks,
Philipp

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Joined: April 21st, 2007, 10:15 am

January 31st, 2017, 10:10 am #2

Other brands have tropical dials as well, like the one I am wearing right now.

Regarding the discussion, I would think that the sub from Jacek is still tropical, but in less nice condition, which is clear to see.
The tropical process is still a damage to a dial, and often the damage goes beyond discoloration alone, and the varnish layer gets oxidized and becomes brittle. In time the layer can even pulverize.
I often wonder how a nice tropical dial will look in 20 years time...

My AP from around the year 2000...(if Photobucket works today it should be showing )

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Joined: December 30th, 2010, 8:27 pm

January 31st, 2017, 10:26 am #3

As I just wrote to Jacek on one of his offers on the VRM is that I believe that many dealers use the word "Tropical" wrongly. Naming heavily damaged dial tropical is wrong. Now we have come from so far and achieve international awareness with vintage Rolex, we all should be more careful in what is write. By naming anything faded dial "tropical" works at the end of the day against all of us.

The word tropical actually gets you more attention but at the same time confuses the market when they see a damaged dial instead of a nice faded tropical one. Why misleading a buyer when you want him to become your customer or friend?

- The tropical effect rarely occurs when a old Rolex dial is undamaged and worn back in the days in heavy sunlight and then got stored in a dark place for years. Something thats quite difficult to achieve and therefor super rare. Tropicals have undamaged original luminous and the dial changed color due to the UV rays and storage and the surface is still perfectly glossy...



- The shitage effect on Jaceks dial is merely a damaged dial done by a waterproof failure (when salt and/or chlorine water entered) after heavy use that destroyed the lacquer and all luminous. It's not rare and has nothing to do with tropical and this uploaded offer is a perfect example...



So I would love to see the VRF moderators adjust offers like Jaceks as it's not good for the vintage Rolex market we all worked so hard for in general as it's misleading.

It would be nice if everybody consider this next time when you describe your offers.

Thanks,
Philipp
I have no axe to grind here, just my humble opinion - I don't want to fan the flames of conflict.
However, the word 'tropical' is purely a descriptive term that has been created by watch collectors - It is 'non-specific'.
Consequently, 'tropical' will have different meanings to different collectors and there can be no 'rules' as to what is or isn't 'tropical'
Furthermore - who decides the point at which a dial becomes tropical or goes past being tropical . After all, it is all damage to the original dial in one way or another.
Most important is that images should be accurate and not manipulated for best effect.
Let the buyer decide - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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Joined: July 9th, 2004, 2:59 pm

January 31st, 2017, 11:40 am #4

Other brands have tropical dials as well, like the one I am wearing right now.

Regarding the discussion, I would think that the sub from Jacek is still tropical, but in less nice condition, which is clear to see.
The tropical process is still a damage to a dial, and often the damage goes beyond discoloration alone, and the varnish layer gets oxidized and becomes brittle. In time the layer can even pulverize.
I often wonder how a nice tropical dial will look in 20 years time...

My AP from around the year 2000...(if Photobucket works today it should be showing )

I usually associated a tropical watch as one that has been subjected to constant humidity and sunlight that may manifest itself in a damaged dial and hands but also potentially damage eg pitting to the case and bracelet through excessive exposure to body salts thru sweating.

Nice AP but it does go to show it doesn't take very long for a watch to become distressed.

regards

John
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Joined: July 9th, 2004, 2:59 pm

January 31st, 2017, 11:41 am #5

I have no axe to grind here, just my humble opinion - I don't want to fan the flames of conflict.
However, the word 'tropical' is purely a descriptive term that has been created by watch collectors - It is 'non-specific'.
Consequently, 'tropical' will have different meanings to different collectors and there can be no 'rules' as to what is or isn't 'tropical'
Furthermore - who decides the point at which a dial becomes tropical or goes past being tropical . After all, it is all damage to the original dial in one way or another.
Most important is that images should be accurate and not manipulated for best effect.
Let the buyer decide - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
+1 nt regards John
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Joined: March 18th, 2009, 12:48 pm

January 31st, 2017, 12:20 pm #6

if a dial is clearly damaged from water ingress then it is purely that , it is not Tropical it is a damaged dial . if the dial was previously Tropical then that is where the discrepancy can arise . I find in the vintage market many sellers are trying to increase the price of their items trying to associate them with descriptions to which they do not belong . I agree with Philip totally .
Most descriptive terms associated with Rolex particularly vintage describe a characteristic that is hard to argue , Buckley , Bart Simpson ,Patrizi , Pre Comex , Hulk , etc etc . It is hard to argue with these .
Surely Tropical dial is one that has changed colour due to temperature and heat , it could be argued this is damaged due to flaws in manufacture but it hasn`t affected the integrity of the watch unlike water damage which would of also affected movement parts , maybe started rust developing in the case and also left the dial in an ever decreasing state of condition and thus possibly affecting its value down the line.
W C
Last edited by Watch-Collector on January 31st, 2017, 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 9th, 2004, 2:59 pm

January 31st, 2017, 12:57 pm #7

so you do not think that humidity has a place in the tropical distressing just UV and heat anything that can in essence be achieved by leaving and regularly rotating a watch/dial in a window over time or under a lamp.....I note on Philipp's watch its difficult to be sure from just photographs (maybe Philipp could confirm ) what appears to be corrosion on the seconds hand......there seems to be discoloration in the gilt coronet (possibly some moisture ingress at some point) as I said very difficult to tell from pictures......not trying to be critical of Philipp's watch at all, its a really nice watch just trying to understand better where any line maybe drawn............

regards

John
Last edited by fatboyharris on January 31st, 2017, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 12th, 2014, 7:31 pm

January 31st, 2017, 1:01 pm #8

As I just wrote to Jacek on one of his offers on the VRM is that I believe that many dealers use the word "Tropical" wrongly. Naming heavily damaged dial tropical is wrong. Now we have come from so far and achieve international awareness with vintage Rolex, we all should be more careful in what is write. By naming anything faded dial "tropical" works at the end of the day against all of us.

The word tropical actually gets you more attention but at the same time confuses the market when they see a damaged dial instead of a nice faded tropical one. Why misleading a buyer when you want him to become your customer or friend?

- The tropical effect rarely occurs when a old Rolex dial is undamaged and worn back in the days in heavy sunlight and then got stored in a dark place for years. Something thats quite difficult to achieve and therefor super rare. Tropicals have undamaged original luminous and the dial changed color due to the UV rays and storage and the surface is still perfectly glossy...



- The shitage effect on Jaceks dial is merely a damaged dial done by a waterproof failure (when salt and/or chlorine water entered) after heavy use that destroyed the lacquer and all luminous. It's not rare and has nothing to do with tropical and this uploaded offer is a perfect example...



So I would love to see the VRF moderators adjust offers like Jaceks as it's not good for the vintage Rolex market we all worked so hard for in general as it's misleading.

It would be nice if everybody consider this next time when you describe your offers.

Thanks,
Philipp
WOW that is one of the most stunning watches I have seen in a while. Below is a 5512 i looked at before the Holidays and could not convince the seller to let it go, family heirloom. I rarely see the arrangement of 5512 with depth rating and submariner in white. What is the approximate value of a complete watch similar to Phillips 5512 BEAUTY?
I am going to try and make a deal on this watch and want to know if the watch is a $20k or $40k timepiece. THANKS FOR ALL!
ABE
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Joined: August 9th, 2009, 2:14 am

January 31st, 2017, 1:02 pm #9

if a dial is clearly damaged from water ingress then it is purely that , it is not Tropical it is a damaged dial . if the dial was previously Tropical then that is where the discrepancy can arise . I find in the vintage market many sellers are trying to increase the price of their items trying to associate them with descriptions to which they do not belong . I agree with Philip totally .
Most descriptive terms associated with Rolex particularly vintage describe a characteristic that is hard to argue , Buckley , Bart Simpson ,Patrizi , Pre Comex , Hulk , etc etc . It is hard to argue with these .
Surely Tropical dial is one that has changed colour due to temperature and heat , it could be argued this is damaged due to flaws in manufacture but it hasn`t affected the integrity of the watch unlike water damage which would of also affected movement parts , maybe started rust developing in the case and also left the dial in an ever decreasing state of condition and thus possibly affecting its value down the line.
W C
A tropical dial was never tropical when new it turned this color due to many various conditions.So what is considered tropical and was is considered junk is in the eye of the owner or prospect imho. I remember when they were all called damaged dials fit for a refinish. We have water turned mold brown, spider cracked brown,spoty brown etc and now i see the chemical vapor enhanced perfect caramel brown dials so what is the definition of Tropical? Proto, Rare, etc? What concerns me more is all the scratched chipped beat up dials with perfect lume i see being offered everywhere with not even a flake of lume missing.
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Joined: March 18th, 2009, 12:48 pm

January 31st, 2017, 1:12 pm #10

so you do not think that humidity has a place in the tropical distressing just UV and heat anything that can in essence be achieved by leaving and regularly rotating a watch/dial in a window over time or under a lamp.....I note on Philipp's watch its difficult to be sure from just photographs (maybe Philipp could confirm ) what appears to be corrosion on the seconds hand......there seems to be discoloration in the gilt coronet (possibly some moisture ingress at some point) as I said very difficult to tell from pictures......not trying to be critical of Philipp's watch at all, its a really nice watch just trying to understand better where any line maybe drawn............

regards

John
Some watches would need to be viewed by a committee on a case by case basis !
But seriously ok, UV light is obviously another factor I agree is a culprit for tropical dials , but I dont think you can confuse light moisture build up and dispersion under a glass with a heavily water damaged dial . Bearing in mind water will travel everywhere whereas Philip`s watch has fading in a regular circular pattern in the centre with the plots in tact and in very good condition .
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