Some thoughts on Rolex presentation watches...

Vintage Rolex Discussion

Some thoughts on Rolex presentation watches...

Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

August 18th, 2011, 2:13 pm #1

Just some free flowing thoughts pursuant to John Harris's recent post on (mostly) modern day Rolex presentation watches...

I think the seeming lack of interest in these is an interesting phenomenon when just a few years ago everyone was pushing any Rolex with a special "presentation" connection.

I do believe that if there is no extra nomenclature/logo on the dial it hurts the collectibillity; this is even the case with non-logo COMEX, although to a lesser degree as they are still quite valuable. I think John pointed this out in one of his threads and I think it is bang on for good or ill. Although does not quite explain the FAP and Tudor MN pieces does it?

Maybe it all falls to the perceived "machoness" of the Mil and Comex pieces (and the FAP & Tudor MN & Oman SDs) that is the real allure, with the "combat"/action these watches have seen giving them ultimate cache.

But I have seen several 24-hour races and I can say there is quite a lot of combat and resolve involved and if I had a chance for a Tom Kristensen or Allan McNish LeMans Daytona, I would jump at it.

Nonetheless, these presentation watches are not quite considered in the same league as the Grails. If not quite Domino's Pizza, 1/4 Century Club, Coca Cola 20 Years of Service then maybe more like a double-name Tiffany, Serpico y Laino or Joyeria Riviera (Cartier-signed Rolex is in a class of its own). But I think they should definitely be considered above a model with generic history don't you? And perhaps they already are really.

These sports-oriented presentation pieces are representative of accomplishment and maybe it will just take a few years for them to come into their own because most of these that have surfaced are from the sapphire era and the passing of time makes such accomplishments more mythical and, hence, attractive to our sense of fantasy/vicarious living.

In any event, here is a quick list of these sort of pieces that I can think of off the top of my head roughly in value order:

-Omani presentational watches, with the red crest SDs being the top of the heap, as these were gifted to combat soldiers, but many other dress watches given away as signs of respect (all sourced through Asprey, I believe):





And the Omani tradition continues today with some Tudors, I think.

-Panama Canal Subs



-Italian Police divers POLIZIA DI STATO, SOMMOZZATORI 50th Anniversary SD:



-Le Mans 24-hour winner Daytonas:



Haven't seen a pic of the watch and back, has anybody got one?

-Rolex 24-hour winner Daytonas:





-Various and sundry Rolex-sponsored regatta & polo match winners such as Igor's Maxi Yacht Cup TT Sub:



-Private corporate presentation watches such as Domino's, Coca Cola, Eaton's, etc.



Other thoughts and info to add? Dissenting views always welcome...
Best,
T.

Last edited by tomvox1 on August 18th, 2011, 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 20th, 2009, 3:32 am

August 18th, 2011, 2:53 pm #2

I look forward to others contributing to what is in a single post a superb and unique collection of images.

Well done!!

More please...

Ron
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 18th, 2011, 3:38 pm #3

Just some free flowing thoughts pursuant to John Harris's recent post on (mostly) modern day Rolex presentation watches...

I think the seeming lack of interest in these is an interesting phenomenon when just a few years ago everyone was pushing any Rolex with a special "presentation" connection.

I do believe that if there is no extra nomenclature/logo on the dial it hurts the collectibillity; this is even the case with non-logo COMEX, although to a lesser degree as they are still quite valuable. I think John pointed this out in one of his threads and I think it is bang on for good or ill. Although does not quite explain the FAP and Tudor MN pieces does it?

Maybe it all falls to the perceived "machoness" of the Mil and Comex pieces (and the FAP & Tudor MN & Oman SDs) that is the real allure, with the "combat"/action these watches have seen giving them ultimate cache.

But I have seen several 24-hour races and I can say there is quite a lot of combat and resolve involved and if I had a chance for a Tom Kristensen or Allan McNish LeMans Daytona, I would jump at it.

Nonetheless, these presentation watches are not quite considered in the same league as the Grails. If not quite Domino's Pizza, 1/4 Century Club, Coca Cola 20 Years of Service then maybe more like a double-name Tiffany, Serpico y Laino or Joyeria Riviera (Cartier-signed Rolex is in a class of its own). But I think they should definitely be considered above a model with generic history don't you? And perhaps they already are really.

These sports-oriented presentation pieces are representative of accomplishment and maybe it will just take a few years for them to come into their own because most of these that have surfaced are from the sapphire era and the passing of time makes such accomplishments more mythical and, hence, attractive to our sense of fantasy/vicarious living.

In any event, here is a quick list of these sort of pieces that I can think of off the top of my head roughly in value order:

-Omani presentational watches, with the red crest SDs being the top of the heap, as these were gifted to combat soldiers, but many other dress watches given away as signs of respect (all sourced through Asprey, I believe):





And the Omani tradition continues today with some Tudors, I think.

-Panama Canal Subs



-Italian Police divers POLIZIA DI STATO, SOMMOZZATORI 50th Anniversary SD:



-Le Mans 24-hour winner Daytonas:



Haven't seen a pic of the watch and back, has anybody got one?

-Rolex 24-hour winner Daytonas:





-Various and sundry Rolex-sponsored regatta & polo match winners such as Igor's Maxi Yacht Cup TT Sub:



-Private corporate presentation watches such as Domino's, Coca Cola, Eaton's, etc.



Other thoughts and info to add? Dissenting views always welcome...
Best,
T.


.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

August 18th, 2011, 3:54 pm #4

...custom dials to match. Definitely a bit more aura than a service award. Good call.
And what a collection!
All the best,
Tom

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 13th, 2008, 7:33 pm

August 18th, 2011, 5:02 pm #5



.
Amazing Collection - I've never seen so many versions!!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 3rd, 2009, 8:57 pm

August 18th, 2011, 5:36 pm #6

Just some free flowing thoughts pursuant to John Harris's recent post on (mostly) modern day Rolex presentation watches...

I think the seeming lack of interest in these is an interesting phenomenon when just a few years ago everyone was pushing any Rolex with a special "presentation" connection.

I do believe that if there is no extra nomenclature/logo on the dial it hurts the collectibillity; this is even the case with non-logo COMEX, although to a lesser degree as they are still quite valuable. I think John pointed this out in one of his threads and I think it is bang on for good or ill. Although does not quite explain the FAP and Tudor MN pieces does it?

Maybe it all falls to the perceived "machoness" of the Mil and Comex pieces (and the FAP & Tudor MN & Oman SDs) that is the real allure, with the "combat"/action these watches have seen giving them ultimate cache.

But I have seen several 24-hour races and I can say there is quite a lot of combat and resolve involved and if I had a chance for a Tom Kristensen or Allan McNish LeMans Daytona, I would jump at it.

Nonetheless, these presentation watches are not quite considered in the same league as the Grails. If not quite Domino's Pizza, 1/4 Century Club, Coca Cola 20 Years of Service then maybe more like a double-name Tiffany, Serpico y Laino or Joyeria Riviera (Cartier-signed Rolex is in a class of its own). But I think they should definitely be considered above a model with generic history don't you? And perhaps they already are really.

These sports-oriented presentation pieces are representative of accomplishment and maybe it will just take a few years for them to come into their own because most of these that have surfaced are from the sapphire era and the passing of time makes such accomplishments more mythical and, hence, attractive to our sense of fantasy/vicarious living.

In any event, here is a quick list of these sort of pieces that I can think of off the top of my head roughly in value order:

-Omani presentational watches, with the red crest SDs being the top of the heap, as these were gifted to combat soldiers, but many other dress watches given away as signs of respect (all sourced through Asprey, I believe):





And the Omani tradition continues today with some Tudors, I think.

-Panama Canal Subs



-Italian Police divers POLIZIA DI STATO, SOMMOZZATORI 50th Anniversary SD:



-Le Mans 24-hour winner Daytonas:



Haven't seen a pic of the watch and back, has anybody got one?

-Rolex 24-hour winner Daytonas:





-Various and sundry Rolex-sponsored regatta & polo match winners such as Igor's Maxi Yacht Cup TT Sub:



-Private corporate presentation watches such as Domino's, Coca Cola, Eaton's, etc.



Other thoughts and info to add? Dissenting views always welcome...
Best,
T.
I think for any item to be collectible there has to be some supply for people to collect.
I do not think that there are that many Rolex sponsored sport event winners for one,
secondly how many of these want to part with their trophy prize?
These Daytona or Rolex Cup prizes are different than Rolex watches issued to Iraqi secret service, Italian Police or Vatican Air Force...
They were awarded for achievement and sanctioned by Rolex. Not given away to some cronies.
This is the reason that I believe them to be rare.
It is not easy to become a member in the International Maxi Association. One has to be sponsored by a member and one has to have money to afford big yacht and running it.
The Submariner that I am now an owner of was awarded for a Maxi Yacht race sponsored by Rolex
and most likely, based on the rules of the race piloted in large part by it's owner James Dolan.
He is an owner of N.Y. Knicks a director of Madison Square Garden and a media magnate.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 9th, 2004, 2:59 pm

August 18th, 2011, 5:57 pm #7

Just some free flowing thoughts pursuant to John Harris's recent post on (mostly) modern day Rolex presentation watches...

I think the seeming lack of interest in these is an interesting phenomenon when just a few years ago everyone was pushing any Rolex with a special "presentation" connection.

I do believe that if there is no extra nomenclature/logo on the dial it hurts the collectibillity; this is even the case with non-logo COMEX, although to a lesser degree as they are still quite valuable. I think John pointed this out in one of his threads and I think it is bang on for good or ill. Although does not quite explain the FAP and Tudor MN pieces does it?

Maybe it all falls to the perceived "machoness" of the Mil and Comex pieces (and the FAP & Tudor MN & Oman SDs) that is the real allure, with the "combat"/action these watches have seen giving them ultimate cache.

But I have seen several 24-hour races and I can say there is quite a lot of combat and resolve involved and if I had a chance for a Tom Kristensen or Allan McNish LeMans Daytona, I would jump at it.

Nonetheless, these presentation watches are not quite considered in the same league as the Grails. If not quite Domino's Pizza, 1/4 Century Club, Coca Cola 20 Years of Service then maybe more like a double-name Tiffany, Serpico y Laino or Joyeria Riviera (Cartier-signed Rolex is in a class of its own). But I think they should definitely be considered above a model with generic history don't you? And perhaps they already are really.

These sports-oriented presentation pieces are representative of accomplishment and maybe it will just take a few years for them to come into their own because most of these that have surfaced are from the sapphire era and the passing of time makes such accomplishments more mythical and, hence, attractive to our sense of fantasy/vicarious living.

In any event, here is a quick list of these sort of pieces that I can think of off the top of my head roughly in value order:

-Omani presentational watches, with the red crest SDs being the top of the heap, as these were gifted to combat soldiers, but many other dress watches given away as signs of respect (all sourced through Asprey, I believe):





And the Omani tradition continues today with some Tudors, I think.

-Panama Canal Subs



-Italian Police divers POLIZIA DI STATO, SOMMOZZATORI 50th Anniversary SD:



-Le Mans 24-hour winner Daytonas:



Haven't seen a pic of the watch and back, has anybody got one?

-Rolex 24-hour winner Daytonas:





-Various and sundry Rolex-sponsored regatta & polo match winners such as Igor's Maxi Yacht Cup TT Sub:



-Private corporate presentation watches such as Domino's, Coca Cola, Eaton's, etc.



Other thoughts and info to add? Dissenting views always welcome...
Best,
T.
I would be more generic in my primary categorisation.

Firstly grouping watches into 2 major groups:-

Those watches that represent fundamantal evolution of Rolex and secondily those that don't.

Then rank them within the groups as to those that represent human endeavor and those that dont.

Human endeavor would encompass individaual achievement whether its on the sporting field, in the ocean depths, during a military campaign or the ascent of mountains. It would be specific to an individual's achievement and not by association.

How you then rank those 4 groups would be a matter of personal preference.

Its not perfect, but it differentiates e.g. between a 5513 with an escape valve and any desk jockey Comex 16610 and not reliant on perceived desirability based on association and would certainly in my world see a Le Mans 24 hour watch valued more than the desk jockey Comex 16610 or Panama Canal piece.

But what do I know?

regards

John
Last edited by fatboyharris on August 18th, 2011, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 9th, 2004, 2:59 pm

August 18th, 2011, 6:18 pm #8



.
Great collection.

regards

John
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 18th, 2011, 6:38 pm #9

...as best I can and have been fortunate to acquire a game program for each.







.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: November 3rd, 2009, 8:57 pm

August 18th, 2011, 7:22 pm #10

I would be more generic in my primary categorisation.

Firstly grouping watches into 2 major groups:-

Those watches that represent fundamantal evolution of Rolex and secondily those that don't.

Then rank them within the groups as to those that represent human endeavor and those that dont.

Human endeavor would encompass individaual achievement whether its on the sporting field, in the ocean depths, during a military campaign or the ascent of mountains. It would be specific to an individual's achievement and not by association.

How you then rank those 4 groups would be a matter of personal preference.

Its not perfect, but it differentiates e.g. between a 5513 with an escape valve and any desk jockey Comex 16610 and not reliant on perceived desirability based on association and would certainly in my world see a Le Mans 24 hour watch valued more than the desk jockey Comex 16610 or Panama Canal piece.

But what do I know?

regards

John
Quote
Like
Share