marineboy65
VRF Member
marineboy65
VRF Member
Joined: August 27th, 2011, 12:07 pm

November 5th, 2017, 3:52 pm #31

Dear Vrf pals,
I wrote to ask your suggestions .
Yesterday, while on a holiday in Usa, I found a very interesting watch from a local dealer. Price was high ( about Us$ 40k) but very good for the watch. The seller probably did not realize the watch was a collectable piece valued over 60k and so did I .
Please note: I paid his asking price .
We signed a sale receipt with all the infos and serial number of the watch ( model number was not correct ) , I gave him hand-hand a cash advanced payment of about 10% and ordered my bank to wire the balance of 90% ; considering the wire would take 2-3 days, we decided to have the watch delivered to my hotel the next destination city in my Usa trip.

Today the seller contacts me, telling strange stories: he did not realize it was a expensive and rare watch, that he promised the watch to another guy, that his supplier wants the watch back, and so on bla bla bla.

Offering me only refund and telling me he will not send the watch.
I replied I want the watch I paid and I will be firm. The seller did not change his position.

What would you do? I really want to get the watch I paid for, but I don’t want either to be forced to file a lawsuit, have money gone and no watch in my wrist while waiting for the judge’s decision.
You agreed a deal (great for you, not great for him), you paid the seller, you have a receipt. You own it. But he possesses it and now knows it wasn't such a good deal for him. You're screwed. I'd move on. Not worth the hassle and stress. The one that got away...
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r88tbeer
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r88tbeer
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Joined: March 13th, 2015, 10:10 pm

November 5th, 2017, 10:11 pm #32

Dear Vrf pals,
I wrote to ask your suggestions .
Yesterday, while on a holiday in Usa, I found a very interesting watch from a local dealer. Price was high ( about Us$ 40k) but very good for the watch. The seller probably did not realize the watch was a collectable piece valued over 60k and so did I .
Please note: I paid his asking price .
We signed a sale receipt with all the infos and serial number of the watch ( model number was not correct ) , I gave him hand-hand a cash advanced payment of about 10% and ordered my bank to wire the balance of 90% ; considering the wire would take 2-3 days, we decided to have the watch delivered to my hotel the next destination city in my Usa trip.

Today the seller contacts me, telling strange stories: he did not realize it was a expensive and rare watch, that he promised the watch to another guy, that his supplier wants the watch back, and so on bla bla bla.

Offering me only refund and telling me he will not send the watch.
I replied I want the watch I paid and I will be firm. The seller did not change his position.

What would you do? I really want to get the watch I paid for, but I don’t want either to be forced to file a lawsuit, have money gone and no watch in my wrist while waiting for the judge’s decision.
made the mistake in offering the watch at the wrong sale price - no excuse with all the resources at hand. It's not like we're in the 80's at car boot sale.

I agree that it's technically your watch but obviously getting it is going to be difficult.

If you really want it that badly I'd see if you can reach a compromise and meet half way.

Legally lawyers are the only winners and lets face it they suck.

You could name and shame the seller - ultimately that's a bold move, and will lead to loads of mud slinging that may not suit you both.

If I wanted it that badly I'd meet in person and come to a deal.



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Joined: April 17th, 2015, 2:43 pm

November 6th, 2017, 10:55 am #33

Dear Vrf pals,
I wrote to ask your suggestions .
Yesterday, while on a holiday in Usa, I found a very interesting watch from a local dealer. Price was high ( about Us$ 40k) but very good for the watch. The seller probably did not realize the watch was a collectable piece valued over 60k and so did I .
Please note: I paid his asking price .
We signed a sale receipt with all the infos and serial number of the watch ( model number was not correct ) , I gave him hand-hand a cash advanced payment of about 10% and ordered my bank to wire the balance of 90% ; considering the wire would take 2-3 days, we decided to have the watch delivered to my hotel the next destination city in my Usa trip.

Today the seller contacts me, telling strange stories: he did not realize it was a expensive and rare watch, that he promised the watch to another guy, that his supplier wants the watch back, and so on bla bla bla.

Offering me only refund and telling me he will not send the watch.
I replied I want the watch I paid and I will be firm. The seller did not change his position.

What would you do? I really want to get the watch I paid for, but I don’t want either to be forced to file a lawsuit, have money gone and no watch in my wrist while waiting for the judge’s decision.
To me this seems to be simple. There are two parts to this. The formation of the contract and the performance of the contract. It would appear that the contract was formed when the offer to sell at an item at a particular price was met with an acceptance of the price and an agreement to pay. Absent of fraud, misrepresentation or other substantive deficiency, the "consensus ad idem" principle is satisfied. This is evidenced by the documentation. At that point the contract is formed and both parties have rights and duties.

The performance of the contract then comes into play. The seller has the obligation to deliver the item and the buyer has the obligation to pay the price (if not already done). If either side fails to perform their obligations then the other has the right to claim breach of contract and at least withdraw from the contract (damages/restitution claims may then be applicable). However the other route is to insist that the non-conforming party adheres to their obligations under the contract. In this case, it's either payment of the agreed amount to the seller or the seller delivering the item. Once again, it may need legal intervention to enable one party to enforce their rights under the contract on the non-performing other party.

In my opinion, neither buyers nor sellers "remorse" is a valid reason to back out of contracts. There is not a special set of rules that apply to watch collectors and dealers apart from those applicable to everyone else.

Of course. all the above is a theoretical analysis, and in the end, whether either party wishes to insist on their rights under a contract must be weighed against the potential cost of doing so (with or without formal legal assistance and cost).

Regards

Mouse
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Joined: March 14th, 2014, 3:25 am

November 7th, 2017, 12:47 am #34

This is a basic contract issue governed by the local state law. Most states follow what is known as the Uniform Commercial Code. There is an enforceable contract here. However, under 2-401 of the UCC title passes based on when the contract says it does. If the contract is silent on this, and the watch was to be delivered to you by the seller, then title passes upon completion of the seller's performance (I.e. upon delivery or turnover of the watch, not upon the signing of the paperwork and payment).

In this case, the seller breached the contract by failing to deliver or tender the goods to you. As a generally matter, there is no right to specific performance (I.e. right to compel the turnover of the goods) unless, pursuant to UCC 2-716 the goods are considered to be so unique so as to create such an entitlement. Getting a court to order specific performance is not easy. The item would have to be very unique (and very, very hard to replace). If a court deems specific performance to be unavailable to you, you do have a right to monetary damages for the breach of the contract (which in this case would be the value lost to you if you could in fact prove that the watch was worth more than the contracted for amount). All this, as a practical matter, is not very satisfying I'm sure. It is a situation that cries out for a negotiated solution with the seller, perhaps under the threat of disclosing his/her identity (aka a bad review).
perhaps the origin of the phrase “possession is nine tenths of the law”
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southtexas111
VRF Member
Joined: January 11th, 2014, 4:44 am

November 7th, 2017, 1:06 am #35

To me this seems to be simple. There are two parts to this. The formation of the contract and the performance of the contract. It would appear that the contract was formed when the offer to sell at an item at a particular price was met with an acceptance of the price and an agreement to pay. Absent of fraud, misrepresentation or other substantive deficiency, the "consensus ad idem" principle is satisfied. This is evidenced by the documentation. At that point the contract is formed and both parties have rights and duties.

The performance of the contract then comes into play. The seller has the obligation to deliver the item and the buyer has the obligation to pay the price (if not already done). If either side fails to perform their obligations then the other has the right to claim breach of contract and at least withdraw from the contract (damages/restitution claims may then be applicable). However the other route is to insist that the non-conforming party adheres to their obligations under the contract. In this case, it's either payment of the agreed amount to the seller or the seller delivering the item. Once again, it may need legal intervention to enable one party to enforce their rights under the contract on the non-performing other party.

In my opinion, neither buyers nor sellers "remorse" is a valid reason to back out of contracts. There is not a special set of rules that apply to watch collectors and dealers apart from those applicable to everyone else.

Of course. all the above is a theoretical analysis, and in the end, whether either party wishes to insist on their rights under a contract must be weighed against the potential cost of doing so (with or without formal legal assistance and cost).

Regards

Mouse
Ellepi—Any new developments? nt
Last edited by southtexas111 on November 7th, 2017, 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Volecs
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Volecs
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Joined: January 24th, 2008, 8:22 am

November 7th, 2017, 5:57 pm #36

otherwise it is his word against yours.
Even if you paid.
He can always say that you did a downpayment of 40k on the now 60k watch...
Watch full paid with receive and SN, if in 5days he doesnt give you he stole it from you.
Go to the police.
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OysterCollector
VRF Member
Joined: November 25th, 2011, 11:35 am

November 8th, 2017, 5:26 am #37

Dear Vrf pals,
I wrote to ask your suggestions .
Yesterday, while on a holiday in Usa, I found a very interesting watch from a local dealer. Price was high ( about Us$ 40k) but very good for the watch. The seller probably did not realize the watch was a collectable piece valued over 60k and so did I .
Please note: I paid his asking price .
We signed a sale receipt with all the infos and serial number of the watch ( model number was not correct ) , I gave him hand-hand a cash advanced payment of about 10% and ordered my bank to wire the balance of 90% ; considering the wire would take 2-3 days, we decided to have the watch delivered to my hotel the next destination city in my Usa trip.

Today the seller contacts me, telling strange stories: he did not realize it was a expensive and rare watch, that he promised the watch to another guy, that his supplier wants the watch back, and so on bla bla bla.

Offering me only refund and telling me he will not send the watch.
I replied I want the watch I paid and I will be firm. The seller did not change his position.

What would you do? I really want to get the watch I paid for, but I don’t want either to be forced to file a lawsuit, have money gone and no watch in my wrist while waiting for the judge’s decision.
I have also sold items; both of value and of less significant value, where I was offered much more almost a blink later and would never lose face in backing out on my word.

A reputation is priceless and costs highly to build - especially in business. It can take a lifetime to make and a second to break!!! One false move and you are then on borrowed time!!!!Selling your reputation for a few thousand dollars can end up costing astronomically more in lost business and lost trust in the long run. Has one ever wondered why some big companies take out sponsorship of various sports and other institutions. It is a form of advertisement and buying their reputation. One can say that it is exactly buying a reputation so that consumers can learn and trust your merchandise. Above all your word and honour!!!!

Let us know when it is over !!!
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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 9:30 pm

November 8th, 2017, 11:04 am #38

this type of item day to day hence the under valuation.

If a known Vintage Rolex dealer did this then yes, he would be toast, however my guess is this seller is more into datejusts or late low mileage current models so probably not bothered if he is shunned by a community he doesnt normally serve.
-Perpetual Knowledge-
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southtexas111
VRF Member
Joined: January 11th, 2014, 4:44 am

November 10th, 2017, 3:20 pm #39

Curious to hear the outcome.
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robby1965
VRF Member
robby1965
VRF Member
Joined: December 20th, 2011, 8:20 pm

November 14th, 2017, 11:57 am #40

Dear Vrf pals,
I wrote to ask your suggestions .
Yesterday, while on a holiday in Usa, I found a very interesting watch from a local dealer. Price was high ( about Us$ 40k) but very good for the watch. The seller probably did not realize the watch was a collectable piece valued over 60k and so did I .
Please note: I paid his asking price .
We signed a sale receipt with all the infos and serial number of the watch ( model number was not correct ) , I gave him hand-hand a cash advanced payment of about 10% and ordered my bank to wire the balance of 90% ; considering the wire would take 2-3 days, we decided to have the watch delivered to my hotel the next destination city in my Usa trip.

Today the seller contacts me, telling strange stories: he did not realize it was a expensive and rare watch, that he promised the watch to another guy, that his supplier wants the watch back, and so on bla bla bla.

Offering me only refund and telling me he will not send the watch.
I replied I want the watch I paid and I will be firm. The seller did not change his position.

What would you do? I really want to get the watch I paid for, but I don’t want either to be forced to file a lawsuit, have money gone and no watch in my wrist while waiting for the judge’s decision.
You have only one word... if you break it you're a sh*t...
He will not change his decision, i don't think it's worth spending money on a deal like this. The watch would forever be a bad memory
Last edited by robby1965 on November 14th, 2017, 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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