New rules for the Market...

Vintage Rolex Discussion

New rules for the Market...

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

October 17th, 2011, 4:38 pm #1

Our little hobby has become infested with thieves as the value of watches and parts ever increase. This phenomenon is not limited to the VRF, it is across the board for the industry and is growing rather than abating.

Because we moderate FS ads before they are posted we have almost eliminated theft attempts by the bad guys. The big problem is WTB (Want To Buy) ads. This is the only area in which we cannot exercise even a little control because the contacts are between thief and buyer. Most attempts are crude as you would expect from people of limited talents but they only have to win once whereas our buyers have to win every time.

The usual attempts involve stealing pictures from our forum or another one that fits whatever it is you are looking for and offering it to you, usually at a very good price. The normal request is for payment by Western Union or other untraceable cash service. If you push for more info they will usually fade back under their rock to wait for the next victim. Remember, they don't have to be good just lucky.

Recently, they have begun stealing the identity of known sellers, even going to the trouble to get a fake email address close to the actual person's address. This is disturbing for a couple of reasons. It means they are hanging around our forum long enough to become familiar with our sellers and worst of all, they are going to this effort because they are being successful. Among other character flaws, thieves are terminally lazy, they are here because they are "winning".

Starting today contact information will not be allowed in WTB ads.

You must remove your email address and and no contact information in the ad either. Sellers must post under your ad and leave their contact information for you to use. Yes, the thief might go to the trouble of looking you up in other posts and contacting you directly but most likely, they will move on to easier prey which is the point of the exercise. Frankly, it isn't the known posters I worry about, it's the occasional user who seems to be at the greatest risk.

The thieves will never post on the forum, it gives us access to their IP info and a means to chase their sorry butts down. It will completely eliminate the identity theft scam because every seller is on the Market every day and would notice someone using their name.

The mod team kicked this around over the last week or so and although it isn't a perfect system we think it will make it just hard enough for the thieves to move on to greener pastures. We apologize for the inconvenience but we absolutely must address this growing threat.

RECAP:

NO CONTACT INFORMATION OF ANY KIND IN A WTB.

SELLERS MUST LEAVE THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE BUYER TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM.

WTB CONTAINING CONTACT INFORMATION WILL BE DELETED


.
Last edited by VintageRolexForum on November 10th, 2011, 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: April 25th, 2005, 7:42 pm

October 17th, 2011, 5:28 pm #2



/salmonia


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Joined: July 1st, 2010, 5:18 pm

October 17th, 2011, 6:19 pm #3

Our little hobby has become infested with thieves as the value of watches and parts ever increase. This phenomenon is not limited to the VRF, it is across the board for the industry and is growing rather than abating.

Because we moderate FS ads before they are posted we have almost eliminated theft attempts by the bad guys. The big problem is WTB (Want To Buy) ads. This is the only area in which we cannot exercise even a little control because the contacts are between thief and buyer. Most attempts are crude as you would expect from people of limited talents but they only have to win once whereas our buyers have to win every time.

The usual attempts involve stealing pictures from our forum or another one that fits whatever it is you are looking for and offering it to you, usually at a very good price. The normal request is for payment by Western Union or other untraceable cash service. If you push for more info they will usually fade back under their rock to wait for the next victim. Remember, they don't have to be good just lucky.

Recently, they have begun stealing the identity of known sellers, even going to the trouble to get a fake email address close to the actual person's address. This is disturbing for a couple of reasons. It means they are hanging around our forum long enough to become familiar with our sellers and worst of all, they are going to this effort because they are being successful. Among other character flaws, thieves are terminally lazy, they are here because they are "winning".

Starting today contact information will not be allowed in WTB ads.

You must remove your email address and and no contact information in the ad either. Sellers must post under your ad and leave their contact information for you to use. Yes, the thief might go to the trouble of looking you up in other posts and contacting you directly but most likely, they will move on to easier prey which is the point of the exercise. Frankly, it isn't the known posters I worry about, it's the occasional user who seems to be at the greatest risk.

The thieves will never post on the forum, it gives us access to their IP info and a means to chase their sorry butts down. It will completely eliminate the identity theft scam because every seller is on the Market every day and would notice someone using their name.

The mod team kicked this around over the last week or so and although it isn't a perfect system we think it will make it just hard enough for the thieves to move on to greener pastures. We apologize for the inconvenience but we absolutely must address this growing threat.

RECAP:

NO CONTACT INFORMATION OF ANY KIND IN A WTB.

SELLERS MUST LEAVE THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE BUYER TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM.

WTB CONTAINING CONTACT INFORMATION WILL BE DELETED


.
Excellent idea ! Congrats !!
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Joined: April 21st, 2007, 10:15 am

October 17th, 2011, 6:29 pm #4

Our little hobby has become infested with thieves as the value of watches and parts ever increase. This phenomenon is not limited to the VRF, it is across the board for the industry and is growing rather than abating.

Because we moderate FS ads before they are posted we have almost eliminated theft attempts by the bad guys. The big problem is WTB (Want To Buy) ads. This is the only area in which we cannot exercise even a little control because the contacts are between thief and buyer. Most attempts are crude as you would expect from people of limited talents but they only have to win once whereas our buyers have to win every time.

The usual attempts involve stealing pictures from our forum or another one that fits whatever it is you are looking for and offering it to you, usually at a very good price. The normal request is for payment by Western Union or other untraceable cash service. If you push for more info they will usually fade back under their rock to wait for the next victim. Remember, they don't have to be good just lucky.

Recently, they have begun stealing the identity of known sellers, even going to the trouble to get a fake email address close to the actual person's address. This is disturbing for a couple of reasons. It means they are hanging around our forum long enough to become familiar with our sellers and worst of all, they are going to this effort because they are being successful. Among other character flaws, thieves are terminally lazy, they are here because they are "winning".

Starting today contact information will not be allowed in WTB ads.

You must remove your email address and and no contact information in the ad either. Sellers must post under your ad and leave their contact information for you to use. Yes, the thief might go to the trouble of looking you up in other posts and contacting you directly but most likely, they will move on to easier prey which is the point of the exercise. Frankly, it isn't the known posters I worry about, it's the occasional user who seems to be at the greatest risk.

The thieves will never post on the forum, it gives us access to their IP info and a means to chase their sorry butts down. It will completely eliminate the identity theft scam because every seller is on the Market every day and would notice someone using their name.

The mod team kicked this around over the last week or so and although it isn't a perfect system we think it will make it just hard enough for the thieves to move on to greener pastures. We apologize for the inconvenience but we absolutely must address this growing threat.

RECAP:

NO CONTACT INFORMATION OF ANY KIND IN A WTB.

SELLERS MUST LEAVE THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE BUYER TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM.

WTB CONTAINING CONTACT INFORMATION WILL BE DELETED


.
sorry to hear that we actually have to adjust the common practise on the forum due to thieves and conmen.
I fully understand the action now taken, but I am really sorry that it has to happen.
Robbe
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Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:31 am

October 17th, 2011, 6:52 pm #5

I think this is a great idea in principal but, let me pose a scenario..

I'm looking for a difficult part, maybe a 7206 Rivet Bracelet or some tropical Crystal, so I post a WTB with no email info.

A member with the item then needs to respond to the ad and post underneath the WTB.

For example: Hi, I have the 7206 you are looking for. I want $900 for it, email me to discuss further.

Now, what if some other VRF member sees the WTB, sees the response and contacts the seller saying "hey, I need that part too"

Is it not possible that because the seller has now disclosed his email, his price and the fact that he has the item for sale
that someone else can come in and scoop it up from underneath the original posters nose?

In essence, all WTB ads will now become For Sale ads because they will need to be responded to in order to be filled.

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Joined: August 18th, 2003, 8:42 am

October 17th, 2011, 6:59 pm #6

The other option is that we close WTB altogether and you can take your chances on ebay and craigs list.

Its not a perfect solution, but its the one we have.

Cheers

M

http://www.tudorcollector.com
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Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:08 am

October 17th, 2011, 7:09 pm #7

I think this is a great idea in principal but, let me pose a scenario..

I'm looking for a difficult part, maybe a 7206 Rivet Bracelet or some tropical Crystal, so I post a WTB with no email info.

A member with the item then needs to respond to the ad and post underneath the WTB.

For example: Hi, I have the 7206 you are looking for. I want $900 for it, email me to discuss further.

Now, what if some other VRF member sees the WTB, sees the response and contacts the seller saying "hey, I need that part too"

Is it not possible that because the seller has now disclosed his email, his price and the fact that he has the item for sale
that someone else can come in and scoop it up from underneath the original posters nose?

In essence, all WTB ads will now become For Sale ads because they will need to be responded to in order to be filled.
activate the option to get answers also sent to by email, so you get an instant notification of the answer.
So at least you have an equal chance - if this option works if the mail is removed form the ad, which I don't know...

Bye,
Derk
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Joined: February 9th, 2007, 7:33 pm

October 17th, 2011, 7:13 pm #8

Our little hobby has become infested with thieves as the value of watches and parts ever increase. This phenomenon is not limited to the VRF, it is across the board for the industry and is growing rather than abating.

Because we moderate FS ads before they are posted we have almost eliminated theft attempts by the bad guys. The big problem is WTB (Want To Buy) ads. This is the only area in which we cannot exercise even a little control because the contacts are between thief and buyer. Most attempts are crude as you would expect from people of limited talents but they only have to win once whereas our buyers have to win every time.

The usual attempts involve stealing pictures from our forum or another one that fits whatever it is you are looking for and offering it to you, usually at a very good price. The normal request is for payment by Western Union or other untraceable cash service. If you push for more info they will usually fade back under their rock to wait for the next victim. Remember, they don't have to be good just lucky.

Recently, they have begun stealing the identity of known sellers, even going to the trouble to get a fake email address close to the actual person's address. This is disturbing for a couple of reasons. It means they are hanging around our forum long enough to become familiar with our sellers and worst of all, they are going to this effort because they are being successful. Among other character flaws, thieves are terminally lazy, they are here because they are "winning".

Starting today contact information will not be allowed in WTB ads.

You must remove your email address and and no contact information in the ad either. Sellers must post under your ad and leave their contact information for you to use. Yes, the thief might go to the trouble of looking you up in other posts and contacting you directly but most likely, they will move on to easier prey which is the point of the exercise. Frankly, it isn't the known posters I worry about, it's the occasional user who seems to be at the greatest risk.

The thieves will never post on the forum, it gives us access to their IP info and a means to chase their sorry butts down. It will completely eliminate the identity theft scam because every seller is on the Market every day and would notice someone using their name.

The mod team kicked this around over the last week or so and although it isn't a perfect system we think it will make it just hard enough for the thieves to move on to greener pastures. We apologize for the inconvenience but we absolutely must address this growing threat.

RECAP:

NO CONTACT INFORMATION OF ANY KIND IN A WTB.

SELLERS MUST LEAVE THEIR CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE BUYER TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM.

WTB CONTAINING CONTACT INFORMATION WILL BE DELETED


.
to worry about....

Insteadvof enjoying our hobby.
It's getting crazy

You should charge for selling and wtb... To have a great holiday withnthe mod team once a year... Full treatment.
To relax from all this idiot things...

Best
B
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Joined: April 21st, 2007, 10:15 am

October 17th, 2011, 7:20 pm #9

sorry to hear that we actually have to adjust the common practise on the forum due to thieves and conmen.
I fully understand the action now taken, but I am really sorry that it has to happen.
Robbe
I would think that it is logical /ethical to wait at least a reasonable time for the original WTB to react to the answer.
Not that I would wait a whole day, but at least a few hours.
The Topic starter has the first right of refusal for a reasonable period of time.

But in reality most people placing a WTB ad for something, do not really need the item. They often want the item in new condition for a fraction of the price that the item is making on the open market.
Most WTB ads are not clear in details.
For example, if you "WTB a 7206 from the sixties", and you get offered one in very good condition for 700 euro, and you wave it away because it has surface scratches eehhhh sorry patina, then you are placing a WTB for ever.
So "vague" WTB ads will get lesser time to react in my book.
I encourage everybody to be honest about their intentions when placing a WTB
Robbe
Last edited by Robbe1675 on October 17th, 2011, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 17th, 2011, 3:48 am

October 17th, 2011, 7:23 pm #10

I think this is a great idea in principal but, let me pose a scenario..

I'm looking for a difficult part, maybe a 7206 Rivet Bracelet or some tropical Crystal, so I post a WTB with no email info.

A member with the item then needs to respond to the ad and post underneath the WTB.

For example: Hi, I have the 7206 you are looking for. I want $900 for it, email me to discuss further.

Now, what if some other VRF member sees the WTB, sees the response and contacts the seller saying "hey, I need that part too"

Is it not possible that because the seller has now disclosed his email, his price and the fact that he has the item for sale
that someone else can come in and scoop it up from underneath the original posters nose?

In essence, all WTB ads will now become For Sale ads because they will need to be responded to in order to be filled.
nobody submarines the original poster of the wtb. I'm a member of a forum on Facebook that posts eBay links to cool old music equipment that we know would interest the other members. Our rule is that if a member expresses interest, the rest of us agree not to bid on the item. First poster gets dibs. Over a year in and so far, so good.
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