Help with Confirming my Suspicions re My "5513"

Vintage Rolex Discussion

Help with Confirming my Suspicions re My "5513"

Joined: November 16th, 2008, 11:02 pm

August 17th, 2012, 4:43 pm #1

I would appreciate VRF assistance in confirming my take on this 5513, which I have now come to realize might be fake across the board (except for the Rolex parts I put into it after the fact). I bought this "5513" in early 2011 from a 2000+ posters on TimeZone (and member since 2003), who had positive feedback on Watchnet. It was my first foray into vintage Rolex and I bought it because it was described as a circa 1972 3.5 million series 5513 (my birth year). It was actually sold at a bit of a premium at the time.

I discovered serious operating issues after having it for a couple weeks but wearing it sparingly. My watch guy here in town opened up the watch and said the movement was "trashed". Hindsight is clear that I should have gone back to the seller immediately (even thought it was a month or two after the purchase), but I did not and instead paid for an overhaul of the movement, including a new bridge, new rotor, new balance and new crystal (all OEM Rolex replacement parts). The watchmaker also gave the watch a light polish. There was no discussion of it being fake, etc....

I actually really liked the watch when I got it back from the makeover, but subseqently did some more research on Rolex and 5513s and discovered the meters first dial was unlikely to be correct to the 3.5MM case (when I bought it, I had no clue about meters first vs. feet first). I chalked it up to a "parts watch" issue at the time, with an older dial added to a slightly younger case. I have a lot of watches, and the newest to me normally get my attention so I have worn this one from time to time but not really focused on it, until I decided I would try to sell it and started work on a posting.

Well, over the past couple weeks, I have found TRF, VRF and other postings that cause me to question both the dial and now, as of this morning, the case. As to the dial, I saw the recent VRF postings re the placement of the Swiss T markings and I found that mine are set inlaid between the markers in the same manner as a period 5512 COSC and a later feet first 5513. I searched and could not find a meters first non-COSC with the same footings. Today, I saw a TRF posting about fake 5513 cases and see that the E's in the engraved lugs of my "5513" from pics I took last weekend do not seem to match with postings on about shorter middle E's, and that there might also be an issue with the slanted crown protectors. So, I am now thinking I have a fake dial on a fake case. Wonderful. I had also long thought that I had a nice fat font bezel that came on the watch. Now of course, I question the bezel.

I am open to all comments. At this point, I am going off the premise that perhaps some of the parts of the original trashed movement and the Rolex parts I put into the watch are perhaps the only original parts. I don't have the watch with me at work and I have never opened it (it actually keeps time at about 9 seconds fast), but I am thinking I might try to open it this weekend.

I have been buying and selling a lot of watches over the last couple years and have had really good luck. Considering this one a total loss will annoy me more than it will hurt me financially so at this point I am just trying to decide if this is a total wash or I can sell for parts, etc....

Sorry for the long-winded post. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Rob


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TurboWatch
VRF Member
TurboWatch
VRF Member
Joined: October 3rd, 2009, 5:05 pm

August 17th, 2012, 4:54 pm #2

Dial is indeed incorrect for that serial number. Should be a MK I feet first.
But what you should be concerned about is the case itself. I don't like the E font on that case.
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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 9:30 pm

August 17th, 2012, 4:57 pm #3

I would appreciate VRF assistance in confirming my take on this 5513, which I have now come to realize might be fake across the board (except for the Rolex parts I put into it after the fact). I bought this "5513" in early 2011 from a 2000+ posters on TimeZone (and member since 2003), who had positive feedback on Watchnet. It was my first foray into vintage Rolex and I bought it because it was described as a circa 1972 3.5 million series 5513 (my birth year). It was actually sold at a bit of a premium at the time.

I discovered serious operating issues after having it for a couple weeks but wearing it sparingly. My watch guy here in town opened up the watch and said the movement was "trashed". Hindsight is clear that I should have gone back to the seller immediately (even thought it was a month or two after the purchase), but I did not and instead paid for an overhaul of the movement, including a new bridge, new rotor, new balance and new crystal (all OEM Rolex replacement parts). The watchmaker also gave the watch a light polish. There was no discussion of it being fake, etc....

I actually really liked the watch when I got it back from the makeover, but subseqently did some more research on Rolex and 5513s and discovered the meters first dial was unlikely to be correct to the 3.5MM case (when I bought it, I had no clue about meters first vs. feet first). I chalked it up to a "parts watch" issue at the time, with an older dial added to a slightly younger case. I have a lot of watches, and the newest to me normally get my attention so I have worn this one from time to time but not really focused on it, until I decided I would try to sell it and started work on a posting.

Well, over the past couple weeks, I have found TRF, VRF and other postings that cause me to question both the dial and now, as of this morning, the case. As to the dial, I saw the recent VRF postings re the placement of the Swiss T markings and I found that mine are set inlaid between the markers in the same manner as a period 5512 COSC and a later feet first 5513. I searched and could not find a meters first non-COSC with the same footings. Today, I saw a TRF posting about fake 5513 cases and see that the E's in the engraved lugs of my "5513" from pics I took last weekend do not seem to match with postings on about shorter middle E's, and that there might also be an issue with the slanted crown protectors. So, I am now thinking I have a fake dial on a fake case. Wonderful. I had also long thought that I had a nice fat font bezel that came on the watch. Now of course, I question the bezel.

I am open to all comments. At this point, I am going off the premise that perhaps some of the parts of the original trashed movement and the Rolex parts I put into the watch are perhaps the only original parts. I don't have the watch with me at work and I have never opened it (it actually keeps time at about 9 seconds fast), but I am thinking I might try to open it this weekend.

I have been buying and selling a lot of watches over the last couple years and have had really good luck. Considering this one a total loss will annoy me more than it will hurt me financially so at this point I am just trying to decide if this is a total wash or I can sell for parts, etc....

Sorry for the long-winded post. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Rob


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It is indeed as you suspect.

Fake everything


---Perpetual Knowledge---
-Perpetual Knowledge-
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AshleyBowler
VRF Member
AshleyBowler
VRF Member
Joined: February 7th, 2005, 5:57 am

August 17th, 2012, 5:23 pm #4

I would appreciate VRF assistance in confirming my take on this 5513, which I have now come to realize might be fake across the board (except for the Rolex parts I put into it after the fact). I bought this "5513" in early 2011 from a 2000+ posters on TimeZone (and member since 2003), who had positive feedback on Watchnet. It was my first foray into vintage Rolex and I bought it because it was described as a circa 1972 3.5 million series 5513 (my birth year). It was actually sold at a bit of a premium at the time.

I discovered serious operating issues after having it for a couple weeks but wearing it sparingly. My watch guy here in town opened up the watch and said the movement was "trashed". Hindsight is clear that I should have gone back to the seller immediately (even thought it was a month or two after the purchase), but I did not and instead paid for an overhaul of the movement, including a new bridge, new rotor, new balance and new crystal (all OEM Rolex replacement parts). The watchmaker also gave the watch a light polish. There was no discussion of it being fake, etc....

I actually really liked the watch when I got it back from the makeover, but subseqently did some more research on Rolex and 5513s and discovered the meters first dial was unlikely to be correct to the 3.5MM case (when I bought it, I had no clue about meters first vs. feet first). I chalked it up to a "parts watch" issue at the time, with an older dial added to a slightly younger case. I have a lot of watches, and the newest to me normally get my attention so I have worn this one from time to time but not really focused on it, until I decided I would try to sell it and started work on a posting.

Well, over the past couple weeks, I have found TRF, VRF and other postings that cause me to question both the dial and now, as of this morning, the case. As to the dial, I saw the recent VRF postings re the placement of the Swiss T markings and I found that mine are set inlaid between the markers in the same manner as a period 5512 COSC and a later feet first 5513. I searched and could not find a meters first non-COSC with the same footings. Today, I saw a TRF posting about fake 5513 cases and see that the E's in the engraved lugs of my "5513" from pics I took last weekend do not seem to match with postings on about shorter middle E's, and that there might also be an issue with the slanted crown protectors. So, I am now thinking I have a fake dial on a fake case. Wonderful. I had also long thought that I had a nice fat font bezel that came on the watch. Now of course, I question the bezel.

I am open to all comments. At this point, I am going off the premise that perhaps some of the parts of the original trashed movement and the Rolex parts I put into the watch are perhaps the only original parts. I don't have the watch with me at work and I have never opened it (it actually keeps time at about 9 seconds fast), but I am thinking I might try to open it this weekend.

I have been buying and selling a lot of watches over the last couple years and have had really good luck. Considering this one a total loss will annoy me more than it will hurt me financially so at this point I am just trying to decide if this is a total wash or I can sell for parts, etc....

Sorry for the long-winded post. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Rob


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money back, and also ask for the seller to pay for the repair costs that you incurred. Its obviously not right.
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johan61
VRF Member
johan61
VRF Member
Joined: May 17th, 2005, 2:06 pm

August 17th, 2012, 5:46 pm #5

I would appreciate VRF assistance in confirming my take on this 5513, which I have now come to realize might be fake across the board (except for the Rolex parts I put into it after the fact). I bought this "5513" in early 2011 from a 2000+ posters on TimeZone (and member since 2003), who had positive feedback on Watchnet. It was my first foray into vintage Rolex and I bought it because it was described as a circa 1972 3.5 million series 5513 (my birth year). It was actually sold at a bit of a premium at the time.

I discovered serious operating issues after having it for a couple weeks but wearing it sparingly. My watch guy here in town opened up the watch and said the movement was "trashed". Hindsight is clear that I should have gone back to the seller immediately (even thought it was a month or two after the purchase), but I did not and instead paid for an overhaul of the movement, including a new bridge, new rotor, new balance and new crystal (all OEM Rolex replacement parts). The watchmaker also gave the watch a light polish. There was no discussion of it being fake, etc....

I actually really liked the watch when I got it back from the makeover, but subseqently did some more research on Rolex and 5513s and discovered the meters first dial was unlikely to be correct to the 3.5MM case (when I bought it, I had no clue about meters first vs. feet first). I chalked it up to a "parts watch" issue at the time, with an older dial added to a slightly younger case. I have a lot of watches, and the newest to me normally get my attention so I have worn this one from time to time but not really focused on it, until I decided I would try to sell it and started work on a posting.

Well, over the past couple weeks, I have found TRF, VRF and other postings that cause me to question both the dial and now, as of this morning, the case. As to the dial, I saw the recent VRF postings re the placement of the Swiss T markings and I found that mine are set inlaid between the markers in the same manner as a period 5512 COSC and a later feet first 5513. I searched and could not find a meters first non-COSC with the same footings. Today, I saw a TRF posting about fake 5513 cases and see that the E's in the engraved lugs of my "5513" from pics I took last weekend do not seem to match with postings on about shorter middle E's, and that there might also be an issue with the slanted crown protectors. So, I am now thinking I have a fake dial on a fake case. Wonderful. I had also long thought that I had a nice fat font bezel that came on the watch. Now of course, I question the bezel.

I am open to all comments. At this point, I am going off the premise that perhaps some of the parts of the original trashed movement and the Rolex parts I put into the watch are perhaps the only original parts. I don't have the watch with me at work and I have never opened it (it actually keeps time at about 9 seconds fast), but I am thinking I might try to open it this weekend.

I have been buying and selling a lot of watches over the last couple years and have had really good luck. Considering this one a total loss will annoy me more than it will hurt me financially so at this point I am just trying to decide if this is a total wash or I can sell for parts, etc....

Sorry for the long-winded post. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Rob


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dhk
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seattleal
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seattleal
VRF Member
Joined: September 1st, 2011, 4:45 am

August 17th, 2012, 6:24 pm #6

I would appreciate VRF assistance in confirming my take on this 5513, which I have now come to realize might be fake across the board (except for the Rolex parts I put into it after the fact). I bought this "5513" in early 2011 from a 2000+ posters on TimeZone (and member since 2003), who had positive feedback on Watchnet. It was my first foray into vintage Rolex and I bought it because it was described as a circa 1972 3.5 million series 5513 (my birth year). It was actually sold at a bit of a premium at the time.

I discovered serious operating issues after having it for a couple weeks but wearing it sparingly. My watch guy here in town opened up the watch and said the movement was "trashed". Hindsight is clear that I should have gone back to the seller immediately (even thought it was a month or two after the purchase), but I did not and instead paid for an overhaul of the movement, including a new bridge, new rotor, new balance and new crystal (all OEM Rolex replacement parts). The watchmaker also gave the watch a light polish. There was no discussion of it being fake, etc....

I actually really liked the watch when I got it back from the makeover, but subseqently did some more research on Rolex and 5513s and discovered the meters first dial was unlikely to be correct to the 3.5MM case (when I bought it, I had no clue about meters first vs. feet first). I chalked it up to a "parts watch" issue at the time, with an older dial added to a slightly younger case. I have a lot of watches, and the newest to me normally get my attention so I have worn this one from time to time but not really focused on it, until I decided I would try to sell it and started work on a posting.

Well, over the past couple weeks, I have found TRF, VRF and other postings that cause me to question both the dial and now, as of this morning, the case. As to the dial, I saw the recent VRF postings re the placement of the Swiss T markings and I found that mine are set inlaid between the markers in the same manner as a period 5512 COSC and a later feet first 5513. I searched and could not find a meters first non-COSC with the same footings. Today, I saw a TRF posting about fake 5513 cases and see that the E's in the engraved lugs of my "5513" from pics I took last weekend do not seem to match with postings on about shorter middle E's, and that there might also be an issue with the slanted crown protectors. So, I am now thinking I have a fake dial on a fake case. Wonderful. I had also long thought that I had a nice fat font bezel that came on the watch. Now of course, I question the bezel.

I am open to all comments. At this point, I am going off the premise that perhaps some of the parts of the original trashed movement and the Rolex parts I put into the watch are perhaps the only original parts. I don't have the watch with me at work and I have never opened it (it actually keeps time at about 9 seconds fast), but I am thinking I might try to open it this weekend.

I have been buying and selling a lot of watches over the last couple years and have had really good luck. Considering this one a total loss will annoy me more than it will hurt me financially so at this point I am just trying to decide if this is a total wash or I can sell for parts, etc....

Sorry for the long-winded post. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Rob


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Hi Rob:

Sorry to see you in this position - I just went through the same analysis and doubt
about a 5512. Didn't turn out this bad, but I do have a question if you could please email me when you have time.

Al
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clipperyankee
VRF Member
Joined: February 15th, 2012, 2:37 am

August 17th, 2012, 6:42 pm #7

I would appreciate VRF assistance in confirming my take on this 5513, which I have now come to realize might be fake across the board (except for the Rolex parts I put into it after the fact). I bought this "5513" in early 2011 from a 2000+ posters on TimeZone (and member since 2003), who had positive feedback on Watchnet. It was my first foray into vintage Rolex and I bought it because it was described as a circa 1972 3.5 million series 5513 (my birth year). It was actually sold at a bit of a premium at the time.

I discovered serious operating issues after having it for a couple weeks but wearing it sparingly. My watch guy here in town opened up the watch and said the movement was "trashed". Hindsight is clear that I should have gone back to the seller immediately (even thought it was a month or two after the purchase), but I did not and instead paid for an overhaul of the movement, including a new bridge, new rotor, new balance and new crystal (all OEM Rolex replacement parts). The watchmaker also gave the watch a light polish. There was no discussion of it being fake, etc....

I actually really liked the watch when I got it back from the makeover, but subseqently did some more research on Rolex and 5513s and discovered the meters first dial was unlikely to be correct to the 3.5MM case (when I bought it, I had no clue about meters first vs. feet first). I chalked it up to a "parts watch" issue at the time, with an older dial added to a slightly younger case. I have a lot of watches, and the newest to me normally get my attention so I have worn this one from time to time but not really focused on it, until I decided I would try to sell it and started work on a posting.

Well, over the past couple weeks, I have found TRF, VRF and other postings that cause me to question both the dial and now, as of this morning, the case. As to the dial, I saw the recent VRF postings re the placement of the Swiss T markings and I found that mine are set inlaid between the markers in the same manner as a period 5512 COSC and a later feet first 5513. I searched and could not find a meters first non-COSC with the same footings. Today, I saw a TRF posting about fake 5513 cases and see that the E's in the engraved lugs of my "5513" from pics I took last weekend do not seem to match with postings on about shorter middle E's, and that there might also be an issue with the slanted crown protectors. So, I am now thinking I have a fake dial on a fake case. Wonderful. I had also long thought that I had a nice fat font bezel that came on the watch. Now of course, I question the bezel.

I am open to all comments. At this point, I am going off the premise that perhaps some of the parts of the original trashed movement and the Rolex parts I put into the watch are perhaps the only original parts. I don't have the watch with me at work and I have never opened it (it actually keeps time at about 9 seconds fast), but I am thinking I might try to open it this weekend.

I have been buying and selling a lot of watches over the last couple years and have had really good luck. Considering this one a total loss will annoy me more than it will hurt me financially so at this point I am just trying to decide if this is a total wash or I can sell for parts, etc....

Sorry for the long-winded post. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Rob


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The watch repair person may have some liability in this case...If the watch is a franken why didn't the repair person so note and let you know.....I have had the same thing happen to me, including asking the EXPERT watch repair man if it was genuine, of course he said it was and did the repair......
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Joined: November 16th, 2008, 11:02 pm

August 17th, 2012, 7:03 pm #8

Thanks guys. Very dissapointing, but not unexpected.

I have reached out to the seller, and will see what happens. I don't want to post names, etc... in case this was an honest mistake or is made right, especially since I was planning to sell it before this all came about and I would have wanted a buyer to give me the opportunity to make it right if I had been the one having sold it.

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Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

August 17th, 2012, 8:42 pm #9

It is indeed as you suspect.

Fake everything


---Perpetual Knowledge---
...like this. And if he does, he had better make it right or you can go straight to Watchnet "Deal Watch" and blast him.
I hope he does the right thing and refunds your money for this complete POS counterfeit. IMO, all "3-day Inspection Period"-type limited liability policies are completely null and void if what has been sold is a fake, especially a godawful one like this "watch".
Good luck and keep doing your homework so that the next Vintage Rolex you buy is real and happy-making and not a total bummer like this experience.
Best,
T.

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Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

August 17th, 2012, 8:51 pm #10

...all you have to do is plug in "rolex 5513 1972" and his ad pops up pretty quick.
Pretty cute that it has a 007 SN suffix, isn't it?
This fellow better come through--keep us posted.
Best,
T.

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