First service dial...?

Vintage Rolex Discussion

First service dial...?

Joined: October 4th, 2006, 9:33 pm

April 27th, 2009, 5:38 pm #1

The story behind the 6536/1 with III-57 caseback and 306.xxx serial is that the owner read an article in the Dutch newspaper by Schaap & Citroen jewelers asking owners of submariner to come back and change it to a less active / radioactive dial version. There where a total of 9 around. This was in the Netherlands around 1960, i have the signed receipt of schaap & citroen...during changing the dial to a lower radiated now 2 colour gilt dial, he got changed the winding crown too, old one is on receipt....;- )

Now the 6536/1 has a gilt dial with silver dept as prior it was in all gold print. These old 1 colour printed dials had a 10 times higher radiation then the later 2 coloured gilt dials. Rolex was calling in their sub owners to change the dial as first reaction of the danger of radium. This later's a kind of mixed lume is still active under light and if one doesn't know this look one could point out a relume but it isn't. It's seen on dials from '59-'60. So theoraticly the 2 coloured gilt minutetrack dials are first service and later standard in production. Once we hit '62-'63 the radiations goes down by 5 times less Swiss T<25...<br>
first 2 coloured print...


III-'57 caseback...


Early minuteless bezel and copper besel...


one colour print 6536


One the right the 2 coloured printed dial and left the 1 colour print.
As the lume was much higher one the first ones the laques of the dial is mostley damaged by the corrosion.





Rgrds.P

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Joined: November 29th, 2007, 6:14 am

April 27th, 2009, 7:25 pm #2

thanks!
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Joined: October 4th, 2006, 9:33 pm

April 27th, 2009, 8:12 pm #3







Rgrds.Philipp
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Joined: October 4th, 2006, 9:33 pm

April 27th, 2009, 8:19 pm #4





that finally ended up in Zane's collection.

Rgrds.P
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Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

April 27th, 2009, 9:18 pm #5

The story behind the 6536/1 with III-57 caseback and 306.xxx serial is that the owner read an article in the Dutch newspaper by Schaap & Citroen jewelers asking owners of submariner to come back and change it to a less active / radioactive dial version. There where a total of 9 around. This was in the Netherlands around 1960, i have the signed receipt of schaap & citroen...during changing the dial to a lower radiated now 2 colour gilt dial, he got changed the winding crown too, old one is on receipt....;- )

Now the 6536/1 has a gilt dial with silver dept as prior it was in all gold print. These old 1 colour printed dials had a 10 times higher radiation then the later 2 coloured gilt dials. Rolex was calling in their sub owners to change the dial as first reaction of the danger of radium. This later's a kind of mixed lume is still active under light and if one doesn't know this look one could point out a relume but it isn't. It's seen on dials from '59-'60. So theoraticly the 2 coloured gilt minutetrack dials are first service and later standard in production. Once we hit '62-'63 the radiations goes down by 5 times less Swiss T<25...<br>
first 2 coloured print...


III-'57 caseback...


Early minuteless bezel and copper besel...


one colour print 6536


One the right the 2 coloured printed dial and left the 1 colour print.
As the lume was much higher one the first ones the laques of the dial is mostley damaged by the corrosion.





Rgrds.P
...could it be that the "6" marker on the all-gold print dials is the cause of the higher radiation reading? The way these "6" bars on certain 50s dials age to be a different, brighter color than the other lume plots has always puzzled me and made me think there was a different lume compound involved...perhaps involving higher radioactive content???
Keep up the good work--it's always fascinating!
Tom

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Joined: October 4th, 2006, 9:33 pm

April 27th, 2009, 9:24 pm #6

if that stands for a high radiation dial i personally doubt. Just by the simple fact that they didn't knew on that time that there will be low radiation dials coming too. Most plausible is the theory that it stands for an extra marker to show up & down in the dark & for faster readability to have a big marker at 12 o'clock and a extra luming marker at 6 o'clock.

Best P.

6538, 1 colour print with extra luming 6 o'clock marker...
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Joined: July 29th, 2007, 6:00 pm

April 28th, 2009, 12:26 am #7

The story behind the 6536/1 with III-57 caseback and 306.xxx serial is that the owner read an article in the Dutch newspaper by Schaap & Citroen jewelers asking owners of submariner to come back and change it to a less active / radioactive dial version. There where a total of 9 around. This was in the Netherlands around 1960, i have the signed receipt of schaap & citroen...during changing the dial to a lower radiated now 2 colour gilt dial, he got changed the winding crown too, old one is on receipt....;- )

Now the 6536/1 has a gilt dial with silver dept as prior it was in all gold print. These old 1 colour printed dials had a 10 times higher radiation then the later 2 coloured gilt dials. Rolex was calling in their sub owners to change the dial as first reaction of the danger of radium. This later's a kind of mixed lume is still active under light and if one doesn't know this look one could point out a relume but it isn't. It's seen on dials from '59-'60. So theoraticly the 2 coloured gilt minutetrack dials are first service and later standard in production. Once we hit '62-'63 the radiations goes down by 5 times less Swiss T<25...<br>
first 2 coloured print...


III-'57 caseback...


Early minuteless bezel and copper besel...


one colour print 6536


One the right the 2 coloured printed dial and left the 1 colour print.
As the lume was much higher one the first ones the laques of the dial is mostley damaged by the corrosion.





Rgrds.P
and documented!

Swiss dials used as a replacement. Service dials should be called?
Last edited by BuyingAssistance on April 28th, 2009, 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

April 28th, 2009, 2:47 am #8

if that stands for a high radiation dial i personally doubt. Just by the simple fact that they didn't knew on that time that there will be low radiation dials coming too. Most plausible is the theory that it stands for an extra marker to show up & down in the dark & for faster readability to have a big marker at 12 o'clock and a extra luming marker at 6 o'clock.

Best P.

6538, 1 colour print with extra luming 6 o'clock marker...
Not so sure of that. IMO, it is possible that these dials with the "bright 6" bar are in fact mixed media, i.e. a combo of Tritium and Radium. In other words, just because Tritium began being used de rigueur in the early 60s does not mean it wasn't used prior to the 1961 agreement governing radioactive luminous material in timepieces. Remember, Radium in watches had already been pinpointed as a potentially lethal health hazard as early as the 1930s with the famous "Radium Girls" liability trialhttp://elginwatches.org/help/luminous_dials.html
It might follow that Rolex was experimenting with a mix of tritium & radium on certain dials in this "pre-Tritium" era, with perhaps Radium lume for the "bright 6" bar (as a potentially orienting feature) and Tritium lume for the rest of the markers???
I suppose the way to settle it is this: Can you precisely measure the differences in radioactivity between such small markers on an already small dial?
Best,
T.


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Joined: May 7th, 2006, 5:02 pm

April 28th, 2009, 2:54 am #9

and documented!

Swiss dials used as a replacement. Service dials should be called?
...just because this may have occurred in the Dutch market, how do we know that these "recalls" happened anywhere else?
Interesting theory, sure, but not exactly case closed. Once again, you are jumping the gun, IMO, and perhaps conflating "next generation" with "replacement."
T.

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Joined: October 4th, 2006, 9:33 pm

April 28th, 2009, 9:52 am #10

Not so sure of that. IMO, it is possible that these dials with the "bright 6" bar are in fact mixed media, i.e. a combo of Tritium and Radium. In other words, just because Tritium began being used de rigueur in the early 60s does not mean it wasn't used prior to the 1961 agreement governing radioactive luminous material in timepieces. Remember, Radium in watches had already been pinpointed as a potentially lethal health hazard as early as the 1930s with the famous "Radium Girls" liability trialhttp://elginwatches.org/help/luminous_dials.html
It might follow that Rolex was experimenting with a mix of tritium & radium on certain dials in this "pre-Tritium" era, with perhaps Radium lume for the "bright 6" bar (as a potentially orienting feature) and Tritium lume for the rest of the markers???
I suppose the way to settle it is this: Can you precisely measure the differences in radioactivity between such small markers on an already small dial?
Best,
T.

Old, pre '58 dials with 1 colour print are having a radiation of around 5-15 uSv/h....!!!






The 2 coloured gilt dials from after '58 are having a radiation of around 1 uSv/h....So here clearly is Rolex using a mixture of Radium & Titium to lower the radiation...thus IMHO the colour diffence at the 6 o'clock marker on first generation 1 colour print dials is NOT because of the use of a new mixture....

&

As you know i'm planning a labaratorium test of a high volume different dials that where used in the evolution of the sportsmodels at the radiation department of a dutch hospitel to see the exact results in a neutral enviroment.

Rgrds.Philipp
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