Am I being way too picky a buyer???

Vintage Rolex Discussion

Am I being way too picky a buyer???

Joined: March 21st, 2010, 12:16 am

September 25th, 2011, 8:13 am #1

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
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Joined: February 26th, 2009, 9:58 am

September 25th, 2011, 10:43 am #2

Steve,

I know what you are saying. I kick the tires a lot and I get the same answers from "some" sellers. Too many questions or 3 strikes\mails full of questions and you are out as a customer. I apologize if I ask sellers the same questions over and over or rather the same questions you asked regarding how much is original, serial number, corrosion, personal rating of the piece, provenance, etc. I find that sellers that want to work with me will answer no problem and the others are just not worth the trouble. There is one seller on this list whom everyone brags about and I started to ask him questions about his watches and got some quick answers. Nothing really detailed but answers. Anyway, I asked if he would put me on his "notify" list or his "board" as he calls it when the watch I was looking for came in. I saw him post an ad on the VRF for a watch that matched my wishlist exactly. He never contacted me. I wrote him again and reminded him I was flush with the cash and if he could find what we discussed I would buy it. Why didn't he call me. He promised me he would sell me something from his personal collection. Never happened. I gave up on him. I gave up on the 1675 and bought a 1016 from Jacek. Awesome seller and highly recommended. I didn't know I wanted a 1016 until I looked at what he had and got the answers I wanted. Hang in there. I started buying vintage just a few years ago after lurking and buying Panerais' for some time. I now have a 1665 DRSD (Mark 4 perfect), 1016 which I love, a 5513 Maxi, a GMT 16760, and a few newer models such as a white Milgauss and a Explorer 2. There are enough great sellers on this forum to not give up hope. I have a shortlist of those I avoid for the reason you noted.

Good luck

David
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Joined: November 10th, 2010, 1:07 am

September 25th, 2011, 12:45 pm #3

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
While I agree you are entitled to ask as many questions as you want, the seller should be able to press on with his sale. I can't tell you how many times I've held a watch for someone while I answered a ton of questions (horizontal, vertical amplitude drop...really?), only to have the potential buyer drop off the face of the earth.

I'll hold a watch within reason, then it goes to the first "I'll take it". It just so happens that I recently sold a watch that was well described in the ad, the potential buyers asked 13 follow up questions which took two days of back and forth. Meanwhile another buyer said "I'll take it". After the forth email, I told the grand inquisitor it was sold to the other buyer.

With all of this said, I do wish you the best of luck with your search and you are sure to be pleased with your first vintage Rolex.

Cheers,
Joe

Slainte,
Joe
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Joined: April 16th, 2006, 11:27 pm

September 25th, 2011, 1:18 pm #4

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
every vintage watch can be different after shipment. you would never know.....shipment is on the buyers risk. if you are suspicious from the beginning, then buy from a dealer with a shop and have every questions answered by his watchmaker and held them to account. how would a normal collector/dealer know the answer about original parts to this particular watch for an 30-40 year old watch ? rolex replaces parts all the time during a service. service dials and parts are replacements as well. so what would you buy then ? that leaves you only new rolexes. and they loose value once you close the rolex dealers door from the outside. you need trust for vintage watches and knowledge. both you find here. good luck and kind regards. achim
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Joined: September 21st, 2006, 5:41 pm

September 25th, 2011, 2:17 pm #5

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
...We'd be naive to say that greed is an exception more than a rule. There are however, fine sellers that will eventually have the piece you want and will answer all of your questions honestly. The best seller's ads disclose a lot of information so little more work is required to find out what you need to know.

My advice is to have all your questions ready before communicating with the seller. If a potential buyer has to send 4-5 emails with questions, that means the seller will have to answer tons of emails. It's just courtesy towards the seller to be ready. Also, if technical information is important to you, it's not being "too picky" to ask. Afterall, it's your thousands of dollars that are on the line.


Cheers,

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Joined: September 13th, 2006, 1:06 pm

September 25th, 2011, 3:02 pm #6

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
....Have you ever purchased a house, a used car, pretty much anything on ebay???
There are reputable people and disreputable people....Right or wrong, that's the world we live in...
I don't know why people think that buying a vintage watch will be any different...???
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Joined: October 12th, 2006, 4:29 pm

September 25th, 2011, 3:23 pm #7

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
Ask questions and be careful--caveat emptor
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scottb2
scottb2

September 25th, 2011, 3:30 pm #8

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
i think that if you are buying a vintage rolex and you are not up to speed on all of the details of the watch, ie proper year to movement to dial to conditions, case polishing etc you are well within your rights as a buyer to ask questions. i also believe that with the vast knowledge out here that sellers should be happy to answer all these questions accurately so things are on the up and up - if a seller doesnt know the answer i would respect someone more for saying "i am not sure - let me see if i can find out for you" rather than snapping off a quick "well it is what it is and you are getting a good deal so either take it or leave it".

on the other hand i do understand what it means to be driven crazy by someone who will never be happy with anything short of something kept in a safe for 40 years never touched - and the you would need to pay for shipping and for someone to inspect it for them etc - yikes

its tough on both ends - i rely on the people here i talk to to be truthful and friendly - sharing what they know better than I -

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Joined: October 13th, 2003, 5:24 pm

September 25th, 2011, 3:35 pm #9

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
then in my opinion vintage is the wrong type of watch for you..unless you are a watchmaker yourself.
To many factors are involved to expect a perfect amplitude and positional error from a 30 year plus caliber. One would have to change for a simple example all the jewels, train wheels, and possibly the complete balance to get the near OEM running rates.

Stick with modern if you want awesome running rates in all positions.

Arthur

http://rolexnessreviews.blogspot.com/
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Joined: August 14th, 2003, 3:20 pm

September 25th, 2011, 10:45 pm #10

Some opinions please, or perhaps some folks here can point me in the right direction on how to proceed in my quest.
I have been reading on this forum for years, not really posting because I don't own a Rolex, but I respect the brand.
I appreciate the knowledge that the forum members openly share; for this I say thanks to all.

I want badly to buy a vintage piece within my means but I am not willing to throw my money down on the first pretty girl I see.
I try to ask pertinent questions from sellers about the specific piece that they are offering for sale. I ask about originality, parts that have been replaced, the bracelet, service history, performance specs....to their knowledge. If they don't know, fine.
Just recently I asked a well-known dealer horizontal amplitude and vertical amplitude drop on a Submariner he was selling.
I asked if the bezel insert had been changed. I asked about average rate. The response I got? "You ask too many questions, anyways the watch has been sold."

Really. Do you agree? Do you guys ask similar questions, or just slap down the green when you see what you think is legit.
I believe that the more information, the better...especially since some of the pieces come close to the prices of cars and boats. Maybe I expect my blood money to buy me something I should know something about and be proud of owning.
Problem is, most sellers don't bother to answer my questions and are looking for a quick turn-around with as few questions as possible.
If I were in this business, I'd pony up 2K for a Witschi II and tape printer and some tools and call it a fixed cost.
The added value to a buyer/seller relationship is immeasurable, and sure to be happily offset in the price he is willing to pay for the piece of mind gained. This is why I don't own a vintage Rolex yet, and at this rate, I'm not sure when I will.

Thanks-
Steve
different than talking to a "watchmaker" or fully schooled and equiped repair facility. I take the position that unless I am shown recent service papers from a known watchmaker or repair facility, I assume the watch will need a full factory service, and in that case the person doing the work could and would answer the questions you asked.

A reputable vintage (or "used") car dealer might not be able to give you the compression ratio of each cylinder...but if he had it examined by his own mechanic and the guy said "Hey it's in good shape...give the buyer the standard 90 day limited warranty"...then you've got a good used car and the seller is willing to put some money behind it.

Now if you want a fully restored car with all the paperwork, you don't go to a used car dealer, you go to a private party who has paid to have all that work done...and now you pay top price and get all the documentation.

No different with a watch.

John Ireland
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