4x5 4x6 ??? Punched papers...

Vintage Rolex Discussion

4x5 4x6 ??? Punched papers...

Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 9:30 pm

October 17th, 2011, 11:35 pm #1

OK, this 4x5 holes or 4x6 holes on Rolex Punched papers came up last week.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/m ... 6+punching...


So is there any rhyme or reason to the use of 4x5 or 4x6 holes? Is 4x5 really just USA?

Please post any 4x5's and lets see.





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Eurocontroller
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Joined: February 25th, 2010, 10:30 pm

October 18th, 2011, 7:16 am #2

I'm keen to clarify this as well...and find out any nuances with the paperwork.

cheers,

Nick.
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munchiew
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munchiew
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Joined: July 25th, 2010, 6:16 am

October 18th, 2011, 7:31 am #3

Aside from the above, there are other ways; patina is all important. Old paper should look old. The paper should be yellowed or even browned,due to acid ageing, the ink, both on the printed form, as well as on any rubberstamp or handwriting, should look be faded and not fresh, and the paper itself should have a handled feel (in most cases). Just examples of what to look out for. Not full proof, but certainly more data points for verification.
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steboe
steboe

October 18th, 2011, 9:16 am #4

OK, this 4x5 holes or 4x6 holes on Rolex Punched papers came up last week.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/207593/m ... 6+punching...


So is there any rhyme or reason to the use of 4x5 or 4x6 holes? Is 4x5 really just USA?

Please post any 4x5's and lets see.





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http://www.r-l-x.de/forum/showthread.ph ... rti-Thread

Best
Stephen
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Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:31 am

October 18th, 2011, 12:53 pm #5

In that R-L-X link you will notice that every single certificate posted (with the exception of 1)had the correct 6 dots to comprise any punched number. The certs in that link were all real with the exception of one..the one that had the 5 dot punched number. The years were early 70's through 80's and even the green booklets had the 6 dot punched numbers.

Not to rehash the old thread but, all of the certs produced by the sellers in question had the 5 dot punched numbers which was always my "tell" that they were not authentic. Again, I do believe that there are some 5 dot numbered certificates that are genuine but, the percentage is very low and the certs in question were 98% ALL 5 dot numbers which is just not accurate or possible, IMO.
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steboe
steboe

October 18th, 2011, 1:24 pm #6

I assume the 5 dot paper to be correct as it is shown with the invoice!
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Joined: May 24th, 2011, 1:31 am

October 18th, 2011, 2:10 pm #7

Do you see the dealers stamp on the cert? Do you see the date on the cert? Do you see the SN on the receipt? How on earth can you confirm that these 2 pieces belong together? Is it not possible that the receipt from the Dealer was "sourced" and added to the punched cert to make it look authentic?

I disagree that the cert is genuine, the printing is too light and it has the 5 dot holes which in 83' should all be 6 dots. I think the punch is phoney and the actual cert is too. Thats my opinion.

There is a 78 and 81 cert in the same thread with 6 holes, did Rolex regress and roll back to a 5 hole in 83'? No, I dont think so.
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fumanku
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fumanku
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Joined: July 1st, 2004, 4:12 pm

October 18th, 2011, 2:32 pm #8

In that R-L-X link you will notice that every single certificate posted (with the exception of 1)had the correct 6 dots to comprise any punched number. The certs in that link were all real with the exception of one..the one that had the 5 dot punched number. The years were early 70's through 80's and even the green booklets had the 6 dot punched numbers.

Not to rehash the old thread but, all of the certs produced by the sellers in question had the 5 dot punched numbers which was always my "tell" that they were not authentic. Again, I do believe that there are some 5 dot numbered certificates that are genuine but, the percentage is very low and the certs in question were 98% ALL 5 dot numbers which is just not accurate or possible, IMO.
Hi Beever-

The 5 hole papers were in fact punched not in Geneva, but by Rolex USA. I do not think it was an intentional choice to be different, but you will notice that the 5 hole punched papers (the ones that are fully filled out) were always sold in the USA. They started with the "fat green border" papers around the 3 million s/n range, and are most prevalent with the later thinner green border papers, which are actually written in English, with the warranting party listed as "ROLEX USA", not "ROLEX GENEVE". I've noticed however, the watches that come with "double punched papers" are always 6 holes, even when sold in the USA.

Here are some pictures from my archive of sold watches that support this theory. Please keep in mind that a vast majority of the watches I sell are sourced from the public, in which case fake papers would be highly unlikey.


"FAT BORDER PAPER"






"ROLEX USA PAPER"





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Joined: January 23rd, 2005, 9:30 pm

October 18th, 2011, 3:24 pm #9



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Joined: October 22nd, 2010, 6:39 pm

October 18th, 2011, 4:18 pm #10

Hi Beever-

The 5 hole papers were in fact punched not in Geneva, but by Rolex USA. I do not think it was an intentional choice to be different, but you will notice that the 5 hole punched papers (the ones that are fully filled out) were always sold in the USA. They started with the "fat green border" papers around the 3 million s/n range, and are most prevalent with the later thinner green border papers, which are actually written in English, with the warranting party listed as "ROLEX USA", not "ROLEX GENEVE". I've noticed however, the watches that come with "double punched papers" are always 6 holes, even when sold in the USA.

Here are some pictures from my archive of sold watches that support this theory. Please keep in mind that a vast majority of the watches I sell are sourced from the public, in which case fake papers would be highly unlikey.


"FAT BORDER PAPER"






"ROLEX USA PAPER"




Trying to look for some logic ...

If the thought is that 5-hole vertical hole was USA punched, then would we expect in on USA paper, and so 5-hole punch on papers that say "Chronometer: as opposed to "Montre No:"?

So is 5-hole unlikely to be on a 572.01.250 like this one?

http://www.rolexephemera.com/Guarantees ... 01-250.htm

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