1530 Component Authentication

Vintage Rolex Discussion

1530 Component Authentication

John
John

March 27th, 2012, 9:03 pm #1

Hello--

I have recently purchased a 5513 from an esteemed member of this forum. I then took the watch to my local Rolex dealer for authentication, insurance appraisal, and a quick once over with verification of the seals and water resistance. All checked out until the watchmaker pulled the movement appart for authentication. A few issues have arisen and I would like a second opinion as they have deemed authentication 'inconclusive' and that the watch needs to be sent to Rolex for final authentication.

Image 1 - The concern is the lack of engine turning in the circled area. He feels this whole area should have engine turning in it.

Image 2 - The concern is the 'P'. He expects to see a 'R'.

Image 3 - The concern is the highlighted case screw. This seems improper.

My question is fairly simple. Do I need to be concerned and how concerned should I be? Are these normal variations in Rolex parts? Do I have some nominally value-affecting aftermarket parts? Or do I have a major issue?

Thanks,
John



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Joined: April 13th, 2005, 7:18 am

March 27th, 2012, 9:29 pm #2

all around the case where the back lip meets and seals ...ive seen a lot less be condemned by rolex as unusuable and certainly ..as far as they are concerned ..unserviceable without replacement ....and unlike the movement that is something that cant really be put right easily !!

did the watchmaker not raise this as an issue ?
Last edited by jedly1 on March 27th, 2012, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 28th, 2007, 5:43 pm

March 28th, 2012, 4:01 am #3

A case screw genuine might cost as much as 10 dollars...if there was something wrong with that one....

What is wrong with the case screw? The later ones are round the early ones are half moon. The early ones don't work as well and the later ones work well.

P vs. R what do those marks mean anyway? Are they import marks? If someone was faking a mainplate...why would they put the wrong letter?

I agree the corrosion...would bother me a great deal more.

Last edited by RolexWatchTime on March 28th, 2012, 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 9th, 2011, 9:36 am

March 28th, 2012, 6:49 am #4

"A whole new wawe of second generation counterfeits has just emerged "digital fakes".
The advent of digital technology has now made perfect copies possible by the touch of a button on a keyboard. Never has copying been so easy, quick and such a high level. digital fakes are immaculate in their appearance .../... such a high standard that they fool even exeprienced (watch) experts.../...
ONLY upon closer testing, using scientific methods, can the differences be distinguished between original and imitation .../...
I was invited to remove my watch from my wrist and place it on the (Minolta) laser scanner turnstile. Within 5 minutes-eerly- a picture of a perfect 3D digital version of the outside contours of my watch was produced : THE ULTIMATE,UNDECTABLE COPY.
.../Same process for the movement.../ .../.. these new copies generally sale for around 5000 CHF.../...
Who produces fakes? 80% China even 90%. We can also point to thailand, south Korea and Italy for the so called "Quality" fakes."

Interview from - JEAN DANIEL PASCHE President of the federation of the Swiss Watch Industry.

If you want to know more on that topic read again my post from 3 years ago on VRF about the Trumpf machines now used by fakers, informations gaven to me by a friend working at Rolex at the time.
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Joined: February 22nd, 2012, 8:12 am

March 28th, 2012, 7:24 am #5

Trying to be something they are NOT has reached a new level , fakes , franken's , BUT , if you really want to know its possible with science , ie , I prolly get 2-3 emails a day asking about vintage Panerai parts , dials , crowns etc and also complete watches , sadly most always with the proper due dillegence 90% are wrong

Example .... The fake dials are getting very good , but the underside holds clues , also the Geiger Counter sets most in flames Ask the seller for an image of the underside of the dial ? If he wants $75-150K he should be willing to do it if not ? WHY

With a watch that's 6 figures in values the lengths some will go to is epic and this new generation of technology being used , up's the stakes , even the old generation is improving , so as its said very wisely , buy the seller not the watch , do your due dillegence , ask questions to those that protect the DNA , its important to know what your buying not just what another has said , help is here and elsewhere , but sadly many ask the questions AFTER , then it's too late , I never understand that , asking the questions before would seem logical but after ?

The people I feel bad for are the ones who are NOT Internet savvy , they don't come to forums ,they dont know who to ask and then this insidious industry that makes millions selling deceptions gets away with so much more

Buyer beware sad but true , today more than ever imho fwiw !
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Joined: February 22nd, 2012, 8:12 am

March 28th, 2012, 7:40 am #6

What will be possible going forward >>>

http://www.paneraiblog.us/2011/07/diy-v ... -movement/
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Joined: February 22nd, 2012, 8:12 am

March 28th, 2012, 7:49 am #7

There were allot more images of them filling engravings , filing and plating to get exact thickness , then engraving again , plating even adding cotes , and so on till a. 616 center bridge was completely changed and the appearance correct for a Cort 618 , I hadn't looked at it for awhile till now , gee I wonder why those 6-7 steps and images are removed
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Joined: May 28th, 2007, 5:43 pm

March 28th, 2012, 7:50 am #8

"A whole new wawe of second generation counterfeits has just emerged "digital fakes".
The advent of digital technology has now made perfect copies possible by the touch of a button on a keyboard. Never has copying been so easy, quick and such a high level. digital fakes are immaculate in their appearance .../... such a high standard that they fool even exeprienced (watch) experts.../...
ONLY upon closer testing, using scientific methods, can the differences be distinguished between original and imitation .../...
I was invited to remove my watch from my wrist and place it on the (Minolta) laser scanner turnstile. Within 5 minutes-eerly- a picture of a perfect 3D digital version of the outside contours of my watch was produced : THE ULTIMATE,UNDECTABLE COPY.
.../Same process for the movement.../ .../.. these new copies generally sale for around 5000 CHF.../...
Who produces fakes? 80% China even 90%. We can also point to thailand, south Korea and Italy for the so called "Quality" fakes."

Interview from - JEAN DANIEL PASCHE President of the federation of the Swiss Watch Industry.

If you want to know more on that topic read again my post from 3 years ago on VRF about the Trumpf machines now used by fakers, informations gaven to me by a friend working at Rolex at the time.
Why would anyone fake a 1530 mainplate..I mean zillions exist. Sure if you were going to fake an entire movement...again...but what would be the real cost effectiveness of that...they are not hard to come by....but to make a fake mainplate...and mate it to genuine components...I can't see any real need or reason to do that...but well...anything is possible.

In the future..we can all have 6541's by borrowing one and putting it in the replicator...better sell all your vintage watches now...while they are still worth something.



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Joined: February 22nd, 2012, 8:12 am

March 28th, 2012, 7:53 am #9

There were allot more images of them filling engravings , filing and plating to get exact thickness , then engraving again , plating even adding cotes , and so on till a. 616 center bridge was completely changed and the appearance correct for a Cort 618 , I hadn't looked at it for awhile till now , gee I wonder why those 6-7 steps and images are removed
http://vintagewatchparts.co.uk/index.php?id=3
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Joined: July 9th, 2011, 9:36 am

March 28th, 2012, 8:07 am #10

Why would anyone fake a 1530 mainplate..I mean zillions exist. Sure if you were going to fake an entire movement...again...but what would be the real cost effectiveness of that...they are not hard to come by....but to make a fake mainplate...and mate it to genuine components...I can't see any real need or reason to do that...but well...anything is possible.

In the future..we can all have 6541's by borrowing one and putting it in the replicator...better sell all your vintage watches now...while they are still worth something.


"I just came across this new way of producing fakes 2 years ago
during a raid on a factory in southern China. In the midst of all
the commotion-raids are noisy, disorganised and happen really fast
I spotted quite by chance a stack of innocuous-looking software discs.
Upon subsequent analysis, we discovered that the counterfeiters made smart use of digital technology
and laser scanners in order to reverse-engineer highly complicated mechanical watches. I was also fascinated by this use of technology .../..."

Interview from - JEAN DANIEL PASCHE President of the federation of the Swiss Watch Industry.

Tommy, laser technology made possible to produce high quality fake parts at the SAME
cost of lower quality ones. Sofwares and lasers are now doing the job so cost is no more
a problem. Then about dials I was told SEVERAL times by Geneva that labs exams
are now necessary to tell genuine from fakes.

And remember that "of course" we still can detect fakes but as Pasche said, by essence
good copies are undetectable so how do you now know that this genuine item is ...genuine?
Of course dealers will always tell you they can detect fakes but the producers wont
tell you the same.

A last word about Rolex spare parts sold new in "unopened packaging", since 2 or 3 years already, fake parts are sold in fake packagings.
Last edited by greenoysters on March 28th, 2012, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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