KSA Grading

Joined: January 10th, 2005, 9:17 pm

October 22nd, 2007, 6:39 pm #1

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
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Joined: December 29th, 2006, 11:56 pm

October 22nd, 2007, 6:49 pm #2

Jim,

I am sorry to hear about the injustice that KSA is doing to the card grading market. I feel that they should not even exist as a grading company. They are consistently bad! All the grades I have seen and have heard about are appalling. I have no doubt that your grade of the Hull rookie is correct and the fact that that card was given a 6 is beyond me - especially with the problems you described.

I feel terrible for the people that buy KSA graded cards.

Paul
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Joined: May 31st, 2007, 1:59 am

October 22nd, 2007, 7:01 pm #3

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
Actually, Jim you were bang on .... it is widely perceived that KSA grades are consistently 2 full points under PSA grades. So a KSA 6 will be equal to a PSA 4
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Joined: November 12th, 2005, 8:01 pm

October 22nd, 2007, 8:19 pm #4

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
If someone asks you what their card would grade, it's good to start off by saying "According to PSA grading standards, your card would probably grade a ..." Because if you mention PSA, then they should understand.
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Joined: January 10th, 2005, 9:17 pm

October 22nd, 2007, 8:38 pm #5

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
If it was a collector, that would work but this was just a person that came across a few cards and all they knew was they bought a beckett and thought they were rich.

Which brings up another pet peeve. How come when a non collector finds a card they know to go buy a beckett, know how to look up the card and the price but they can't read the first few pages that explain condition. Jim.
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Joined: June 15th, 2006, 4:13 pm

October 22nd, 2007, 9:57 pm #6

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
I honestly feel that KSA has gotten worse over the years. I bought a number of KSA graded cards back around 1999-2000. They were all in the KSA 7-8 range, and they seemed to be accurately graded. The corners were sharp and there weren't any problems that made the grade seem too high. At the time I thought that KSA was equal to PSA. After all, the called themselves "Canada's most respected grading company!" Now that I have learned the truth, I have sold all of the KSA cards from my collection.

But now I see overgraded cards from KSA all the time! It could be that they feel that they are drumming up business among non-serious collectors. The people that had the Hull rookie at the show this weekend are probably very happy with their KSA 6 right now and I'm sure that the card will be sold locally, or show up on eBay very soon! I'm sure if they guy ever picks up another raw card, he will send it to KSA so that he gets a higher grade, and then gets more cash out of the card.

It's too bad that KSA doesn't put forth more effort to grade acurately, or just get out of the business!
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Joined: February 25th, 2007, 4:13 pm

October 23rd, 2007, 6:01 pm #7

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
Hi,

I agree with Earl. I still have several early KSA cards that are in my collection that are graded fairly consistent with PSA standards. These included 58-59 and 62-63 Parkies. However, I typically will not buy any stuff that has been graded by KSA today without seeing it first hand as his graded stuff is usually overgraded by the 2-3 points as mentioned. I think that if you can find some early serial # cards you may be able to find a deal.

Rob
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Joined: December 6th, 2010, 2:44 pm

March 14th, 2011, 6:48 pm #8

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
Most people who collect and sell graded cards are well aware that KSA over grades cards, and that the resale of a card graded by this company can bring more disappointments than satisfaction.

KSA had a wonderful opportunity to get into the market as a legitimate competitor of PSA and BGS, being from Canada and all, but blew it. They were near-sighted, and one needs to look at the bigger picture to be successful. They knew they would get repeat customers if they gave higher grades to the cards, repeat customers are a good thing when one is trying to establish a business; however, when these cards got out into the market, they were less valuable because over-graded. In the end, this practice hurt the reputation of the company.

Because many people in the hobby are not buying cards graded by KSA anymore, now is actually a good time to by them. Despite being over-graded in many cases, there are still some great cards in these holders that can be had for less than what the cards sell for raw. I bought a Jacques Plante rookie card, graded a KSA 7, for $500 dollars on eBay not long ago, which will probably grade a PSA 6. A PSA 6 will sell for well over $500--well over. So, this purchase was a good investment.

I still think KSA is better than Beckett in some respects--mark well the word "some." Compared to modern stuff, Beckett are terrible at grading vintage stuff. Just recently I saw a Dave Keon rookie card on eBay graded an 8 that had rounded corners on the left side. I couldnt believe my eyes! Moreover, Beckett will grade cards that have been sheet cut, whereas PSA won't. Their tolerance in this area may have something to do with an experience I just had. I had a card graded by Beckett, an extraordinary grade of BGS 10, and when I sent the card to PSA to be crossed over, they came back and said it was trimmed. Because PSA is probably the worse grading company for crossovers, I sent the card to SGC and they too came back and said the same thing. So, the question becomes: how many trimmed cards are in these Beckett holders?

In the end, and despite PSA's idiocy in the context of crossovers, because of the PSA registry, one cannot go wrong in getting cards graded by PSA. Even though their standards are declining and even though their quest to be more precise in their grading, incorporating the .5 decimal system into their previous system, has resulted in them having a laughable grading system, there's nothing between a 9 and a 10 where the cards are the most valuable; cards graded by this company will secure maximum dollars if and when one decides to sell one's cards.


Last edited by nightmares101 on March 14th, 2011, 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 27th, 2006, 5:16 pm

March 14th, 2011, 8:57 pm #9

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
I just had 3 KSA cards come back from PSA, all a grade lower but that was my expectation
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Joined: September 25th, 2006, 9:10 pm

March 14th, 2011, 10:49 pm #10

Hey guys. This post is not going to be news to most of you but it may help out some newer collectors. Yesterday I was at the show in Ottawa. Someone offered me a few cards cards including a Bobby Hull rookie. The card would have graded a psa 4-5 because of corner wear but it had the rubber band wave going. I think most of you know what that is. Anyway, the person asked me what the card would grade, I said probably a 3-4 because of the corners and the bends caused by the rubber band. Anyway, they rejected my offer and shopped the card around a bit more. They ended up giving it to ksa who was grading at the show. We're used to ksa overgrading cards but they gave this card a 6 which is just a joke. So now, the guy selling it thinks I'm a crook trying to low ball thier card and some unassuming collector will get screwed on ebay thinking they are buying a nice card. Anyway, the moral to this story is, for those of you that make the occasional bid on ksa cards thinking they are only a grade or so over, be careful because they are not getting any better at grading. Jim.
I think there are good and bad stories with all of the graders.I personally bought a KSA 8 OPC Gretz RC for $500 cracked it and it came back a PSA 8.My KSA 8.5 Orr RC I think has a great chance at a PSA 8 it is sharp.
Every card has to be looked at individually as I have seen some high end KSA stuff out there.
However KSA is the weakest overall I would say.
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