Emulating A Loom

Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Jan 8 2015, 07:02 AM #1

So I have been thinking emulating some primitive looms which should be ok for the time period.
In looking around I've seen Rain's cloth and I feel Rain's covers the manufacture of fibers very well.
I have found a number of mods plus ingame with capability to craft finished clothing/armor items.
The Iron modding work seems to have evolved to a deep craft from the first bog iron.
However, I didn't find anything attempting to fill the stage between making fibers and poofing it into cloths.
Even with hours and days spent to create the fibers or cut hides, many then bow out to x amount of fiber and tools and in 30 minutes viola a shirt.

These are the three styles I'm thinking of.
Sorry for this, paint is my favorite drawing program

I didn't want make something that would overly trivialize the time and effort tasks of this magnitude must have/do require while keeping it simple.
I tried to keep the consumption and production close, given what is available to make.

Since hides are the abundant resource I have to work with, I used cord as the primary consumable for these looms production.
The output is spoof item "woven fabric" using clothing base items; Bandage(1lb), Woollen overcoat(8lb), and Fur overcoat(15lb) items.
So basically all items that can be made back into cord. Output differs depending on the size loom you use, and the effort associated.



Note: this download is for URW ver. 3.3, previous version use code below
Loom mod

Just place text files in your unrealworld directory and play

Menus:
.Job tools.  -J-  *MAKE*
.Hand loom.  -X-  *MAKE*
.Leaning loom.  -Y-  *MAKE*
.Standing loom.  -Z-  *MAKE*
Code:
[SUBMENU_START:Job tools]

//2 lb loom
//consume .25 lb cord
.Small frame loom. "Firewood" [effort:2] [phys:arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /120/    %-10%
{Wooden stake} (4) [remove]
{Axe} '+(To cut stakes)'
{Knife} '+Cut cords,grooves for posts'
{Feather} (5) [remove] '+quill line posts'
{cord} #.25# '+lines & binding' [remove]

////400 lb loom
//consume 0 lb cord
.Leaning loom. "Log" [effort:3] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /240/  \1\  %-10%
{[TILE:Inside of a building]} 'Loom needs to be set inside'
{Slender tree trunk} (1) '+for frame' [remove]
{Axe} '+(To cut groves)'
{Board} (3) '+(divider)' [remove]
{Wooden stake} (4) '+(divider post)' [remove]
{Knife} '+Cut holes for posts'
{rock} (20) '+(Hanging weight)' [remove]
//removed from build item loom unstrung in final state, moved to start weave
//{cord} (4) '+(20 vertical lines)' [remove]

//500 lb loom
//consume 3 lb cord
.Standing loom. "Tree trunk" [effort:3] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/  \1\  %-10%
{Slender tree trunk} (4) [remove]
{Axe} '+(To cut groves)'
{Board} (5) '+(divider)' [remove]
{Wooden stake} (8) '+(divider post)' [remove]
{Knife} '+Cut cords,holes for posts'
{rock} (30) '+(Hanging weight)' [remove]
//removed from build item, loom unstrung in final state, moved to start weave, no loom loss
//{cord} (6) '+(30 vertical lines)' [remove]


[SUBMENU_END:Job tools]

[SUBMENU_START:Hand loom]

.Hand weave. "Bandage"  [effort:1] [phys:hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /5/  %10%
{small frame loom} [ground]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove] [name:hand weave]
{Feather} (2) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

[SUBMENU_END:Hand loom]

[SUBMENU_START:Leaning loom]

//9 lb cord consumed,
//yield 8 lb fabric, 40 hrs labor including loom construction
//started weave on leaning loom
.Begin leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{cord} (4) '+(20 vertical lines)' [remove] [name:started leaning weave]
{Knife} '+(for cutting)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Continue "started weave on leaning loom"
//Second weave on leaning loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Continue started leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{started leaning weave} [remove] [ground] [name:top leaning weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Continue "Top weave on leaning loom"
//Third weave on leaning loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Continue top leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{top leaning weave} [remove] [ground] [name:middle leaning weave start]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Fourth weave on leaning loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Middle leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{middle leaning weave start} [remove] [ground] [name:working middle leaning weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Fifth weave on leaning loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Complete middle leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{working middle leaning weave} [remove] [ground] [name:middle leaning weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Sixth weave on leaning loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Start bottom leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{middle leaning weave} [remove] [ground] [name:started leaning bottom weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Seventh weave on leaning loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Complete bottom leaning weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{started leaning bottom weave} [remove] [ground] [name:completed leaning weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Yield 8 lb fabric
//Eighth phase on leaning loom
.Finish weave. "Woollen overcoat"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /60/  %-10%
{leaning loom} [ground]
{completed leaning weave} [remove] [ground] [name:woven fabric]
{Knife} '+(cut down weave)'
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(finish edge threading)'

[SUBMENU_END:Leaning loom]

[SUBMENU_START:Standing loom]

//15 lb cord consumed, yield 15 lb fabric, 57 hrs including loom construction
//started weave on standing loom
//4 lb cord consumed
.Begin standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{cord} (6) '+(30 vertical lines)' [remove]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1.25# [remove] [name:started standing weave]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//second weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Continue started standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{started standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:started top standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//third weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Continue top standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{started top standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:top standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//fourth weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Finish top standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{top standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:finished top standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//fifth weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Start middle standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{finished top standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:started middle standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1.5# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//sixth weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Continue middle standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{started middle standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:continued middle standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1.5# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//seventh weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Finish middle standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{continued middle standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:finished middle standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1.5# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//eighth weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Start bottom standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{finished middle standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:started bottom standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//ninth weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Continue bottom standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{started bottom standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:finishing bottom standing weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1.25# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//tenth weave on standing loom
//1 lb cord consumed
.Finish bottom standing weave. "Linen apron"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /300/ \1\ %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{finishing bottom standing weave} [ground] [remove] [name:completed standing loom weave]
{Knife} '+(Cut cross lines)'
{cord} #1# [remove]
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(Weave threader)'

//Yield 15 lb fabric
//Eighth phase on standing loom
//x cord consumed
.Remove weave. "Fur overcoat"  [effort:2] [phys:stance,arms,hands]  [noquality] *CARPENTRY*  /120/  %-10%
{standing loom} [ground]
{completed standing loom weave} [remove] [ground] [name:woven fabric]
{Knife} '+(cut down weave)'
{Feather} (10) [remove] '+(finish edge threader)'

[SUBMENU_END:Standing loom]
The two large looms are pinned to the ground on creation to prevent them winding up in inventory.
They drop the working product on the ground after each work cycle, and thus would support running multiple projects at once.

I've set the work effort pretty high, and as you need to interact with the machine multiple times to get a product, I figured that multiple intensive efforts over less interactions worked better than several times more interactions at lower effort.

This is very early so I apologize notes and extra text not being cleaned up. I would appreciate anyone willing to have a check. If you have abundant fiber other than cord, just replace the {cord} entries for what you got.

Edit: Found a possible issue in standing loom, code has been updated in post.
The standing loom is no longer consumed in the process.
Some interim stage names were changed for the standing loom, if you already started a job on standing loom, finish before replacing code to prevent the loss of your time.

Thanks for looking
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Joined: Jul 14 2013, 06:19 AM

Jan 15 2015, 03:25 AM #2

You've been helpful elsewhere in the Mods forum so thought I would drop some comments for you. Haven't gotten to trying it in game though.

1) The cord object can be made from leather or furs which is contrary to the intent of weaving. You do mention consideration for replacing "cord" with a fabric/thread. Have you tried adding your own thread object then using "* thread* to see if it is compatible with Lasse's mod that way?

2) The concept of the weaving looms looks decent. Interesting you figured out how to make a fixed object. Well done on having the fabric drop on the floor allowing the work to be saved or sorted

3) Here in Canada the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto has a working hand powered loom of some type. Different type than yours. I believe the ROMs to be much later period. However, they or another museum may be able to answer a question about how much worker time it takes to make X size of fabric.

4) Skill % wise not sure why you have a -10. Also I would think the fixed looms are easier (or faster) to use.

5) Fatigue wise based on what I saw at the ROM the worker could work at it for hours. They wouldn't sweat but Im sure they get a little tired.
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Jan 15 2015, 05:22 AM #3

Thank you for the feedback.

For the weaving consumable, when I thought about it, I mentally just reduced it to 0.1 lb strand "thread" consumable minimum units
to achieve an appropriate weight product. Figuring without stripping clothes or creating a some non-standard fiber,
I thought it made sense to use hide and leather (.2 ~ 24 lb of material), they can cut down to produce bandage (1 lb (10 - .1 strand) material)
which in turn can be made to cord (.5 lb (5 - .1 strands) material) This allowed me to mostly hit end weight for existing items which made sense.

The large standing loom produces the largest item by weight and thus requires the longest (most effort) time.
As to the skill setting, it was intended to add difficulty to the tasks.
For the concept of the loom I had to choose between making a leisure time loom which would, for larger work,
require a great number of low effort interactions to complete, or a production focused full effort looms which have compressed interactions but also compressed effort.
Given the menu structure it seemed that production focused looms would work better.
So I do agree the effort is high but it also isn't taking a month, in making it I struggled with that balance among other things.
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Joined: Jul 14 2013, 06:19 AM

Jan 15 2015, 10:21 PM #4

The only thought I've had and already turning down is that you could replace the loom each step a "loom with 1 yard" then "loom with 2 yard". This I've turned down working out more as the way Unreal menu works would be a huge pain, complicated and prone to bugs. So the dropping fabric at stages seems okay.

Could perhaps do a 1-yard object, 2-yard, 3-yard etc or 1-lb-cloth, 2-lb-cloth with each loom size limited to a certain upper limit. I don't think we can have "or" statements in the Unreal menus. So again back to thinking the way you've coded the loom jobs is the appropriate way to go.

>>>

The real open ended matter for me is the production rate vs 1) real world and 2) Lasse's mod with the backstrap loom (which again I dont know real comparable rates). Game balance would need to be tested.

Currently Im doing metal working in game so wont get a chance to try the production times.

Checking trade value vs time to other game object like torches etc may be useful.
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Jan 16 2015, 01:35 AM #5

Brygun @ Jan 15 2015, 10:21 PM wrote: The real open ended matter for me is the production rate vs 1) real world and 2) Lasse's mod with the backstrap loom (which again I dont know real comparable rates). Game balance would need to be tested.
In looking at the mod you mentioned I copied a snippets which create "Bandage" item (1 lb cloth type item), and simulate a "loom". Item is created in 40 min. game life and could be up to x 10
.Nettle Cloth.  "Bandage"    *HIDEWORKING* [effort:1] [phys:hands]  /40/  [patch:10]
{Thread from Nettle} 'Thread'(2)  [remove] [patchwise]
{Slender trunk} '+(Backstrap Loom)' (2) [ground]
{Rope}  '+(Backstrap Loom)' (2) [ground]
{Knife}
The "bandage" item in game takes I think 15 min. game life to make.

The small hand loom in the loom mod creates the "bandage" item as well, but takes 6.75 hrs. game life to weave the 1 lb. item and small time to assemble the loom. The time is spread over four (4) light effort interactions with the loom.
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Joined: Jul 14 2013, 06:19 AM

Jan 16 2015, 01:46 AM #6

Good comparison info

I have no idea which is more true to life vs a game setting :huh:
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Jan 16 2015, 03:22 AM #7

Having no weaving experience I just tried to imagine the time working with the smallest measure of material available to make a 1 lb square, a towel size item and a blanket size item.
Where in reality the bandage square weave is only 1.0 lb and thus should only be 5 - 0.1 lb vertical and 5 - 0.1 lb horizontal "strands" and should probably take little time. At this phase though more my concern is if it feels realistic.
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Feb 14 2016, 07:11 PM #8

Updated for URW ver. 3.3
Looms added, general function not changed.
At this time I did not change the products as the looms purpose was to be flexible.
My sheep likes the looms, as the alternative is the axe.


Note: this is for URW ver. 3.3, previous version above
Loom mod
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Joined: Mar 17 2014, 12:08 AM

Feb 14 2016, 09:19 PM #9

This is great work, Privateer, and is the kind of thing I for one like to see added to the game.

I'm not sure I understand how the hand loom works, though. I get that the cord gets consumed, but does the stakes and firewood used as well?
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Feb 15 2016, 12:07 AM #10

irontide @ Feb 14 2016, 02:19 PM wrote: I'm not sure I understand how the hand loom works, though. I get that the cord gets consumed, but does the stakes and firewood used as well?
You are right, the hand loom itself does get consumed in the job. The (4) stakes and (5) feathers are lost at this time.

The issue is that I currently have the loom being strung when it's built (consuming #.5 cord and (5) feathers), this creates an exploit if the loom survived.

I need to fix this by moving all the consumables outside the "tool" creation task. For the hand loom I need to lessen the effort and probably the number of iterations to just once per product.

The output is also a loss of #.25 from the total #1.25 input.. I should also fix that :D
Thanks
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Feb 15 2016, 01:15 AM #11

I've fixed the hand loom so that the tool remains, it is now a single task to create the "bandage" size item. I've also made the task faster than in-game "bandage" creation due to investment in technology.

Updated both 3.x code above and 3.3 download
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Joined: Feb 4 2013, 11:28 PM

Feb 17 2016, 12:08 AM #12

I'm eager to use this mod, but when installed along with Rain's iron mod there is a problem in the Shift-M menu.

J - Job tools conflicts with J - Iron Crafts

Job tools shows the 3 looms, but then Iron Crafts shows only the same 3 looms (no iron crafts at all). When I remove diy_loom.txt the iron crafts work properly.

I'm a noob when it comes to mods, could you check this out?
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Joined: Nov 8 2014, 03:26 PM

Feb 17 2016, 12:22 AM #13

JEB Davis @ Feb 16 2016, 05:08 PM wrote:I'm eager to use this mod, but when installed along with Rain's iron mod there is a problem in the Shift-M menu.

J - Job tools conflicts with J - Iron Crafts
Open the text file;
menudef_loom.txt

Change the -J- to any open letter (use capital)

Code: Select all

// ADEFGHIJKMNOPQSVXYZ

.Job tools.  -J-  *MAKE*
.Hand loom.  -X-  *MAKE*
.Leaning loom.  -Y-  *MAKE*
.Standing loom.  -Z-  *MAKE*
save and done.
Job tools should now be that letter on (M)ake menu and J - Iron Crafts should return ;)
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Joined: Feb 4 2013, 11:28 PM

Feb 17 2016, 01:46 AM #14

Thanks, that sounds simple!

Now I see one or two more conflicts with the mods I've got installed, and thanks to your advice I can fix them.

:)
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Joined: Jun 16 2013, 06:36 AM

Feb 17 2016, 09:57 AM #15

This looks great Privateer. Nice work! Admittedly I haven't tried it yet...but when I return to UrW I think I will!

...It's a shame we're (currently?) limited to the menu size and alphabet...makes many-listed mod stuff hard to work (and play) with :-/
Wyrd bið ful aræd


My music project
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