Whitby deals Weidner to Brampton

Whitby deals Weidner to Brampton

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:32 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:41 pm #1

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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 2:00 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:29 pm #2

Or will we continue to see this charity for the rich?
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Joined: Sun May 26, 2002 7:23 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:48 pm #3

Was this not considered a real trade? Or do there have to be a certain number before it's acceptable to have one for draft picks. If you look at the players drafted over the last few years a number of them are now reporting to the teams that took them (Joakim, Dakin, Fournier, Craig, Tinney all to teams in the bottom three). It's time to stop the whinning I think. Things have changed over the last few years. Draft picks actually matter now because most guys are going to where they were drafted, even if it's a team that is struggling. I commend these guys for doing so too.
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 2:00 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:21 pm #4

One player actually traded for another player? That's impressive! How did anyone on the Jr.A Council ever come up with such a novel idea? As for drafted players reporting to bottom teams, I also commend them for that. Though it has happened in the past. Brampton spent the late 1990s stacking up on draft picks and the majority of the players had long Excelsior careers. It made no difference as Brampton continued to miss the playoffs every season. The Excelsiors only returned to contention when their minor system started producing top players again. No question that drafted players are talented and they certainly can enhance an up and coming team or make a bottom feeder a bit more respectable. What they have never done in three and a half decades of drafting is turn a bottom team into a contender. In Jr.A lacrosse local talent alone can do that.

Excuse my flashback but when I saw the Attwood news I had visions of Wiles or Beisel or... If I thought hard enough I could remember dozens of names. Doesn't matter. What does matter is a credible lacrosse person suggesting "things have changed". I'm not sure what version of reality you're using but I don't have access to it.

Yet my main concern is not about the draft picks. It is about the 2012 competition to determine the best Junior club in Ontario. The moment any team adds a top player from another club and does not give equal talent back in return(living, breathing athletes, not theoretical future superstars) the entire competition is tainted. Unfortunately the OLA has been allowing such unfair practices for so long it now seems normal. People accept it, even think it is fair because, to be honest, they don't think at all!

Indeed I am whining. It's June, time for my annual whine. However it is honestly expressed and accurate. And I know it is inconvenient of me to keep popping up every year. It's also inconsiderate to not allow those running lacrosse to their hypocrisy, without any pangs of conscience. Don't get me wrong, I do give people credit. It's no small accomplishment to turn me off lacrosse. Those in authority running our game have over achieved in that department.
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 8:37 am

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:37 pm #5

That Dakins trade is always a signature move by Mississauga. What did the Tommy's get for him? Draft picks?

















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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:27 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:50 pm #6

He forced the trade.
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 3:01 am

Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:08 pm #7

Or will we continue to see this charity for the rich?
What happens in lacrosse is no different than professional baseball or hockey or Junior hockey for that matter. Graduating players are like free agents - they won't be back and if you're not going to have a chance of winning send them to somewhere they might be able to and get something in return.

Ray Bourque to Colorado, Jeff Carter to LA, John Tavares to London, David Cone to the Blue Jays.

Is the implication that these are all bush leagues?
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Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 2:00 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:36 pm #8

First off, I've not said any league is a bush league. The OLA league is still the premier Junior league in the game. I may not like how it is run on a couple of matters, however that is my problem.

You do bring up a fair point and it would be an interesting and a highly subjective discussion to debate the merits of each league. Yet you can't escape the fact there is a huge difference between lacrosse and these other sports. Hockey, baseball, football and basketball are major sports. I'm not saying they are better than lacrosse, in fact I consider them inferior. Nevertheless they attract mega interest everywhere, while lacrosse is more of a niche sport - an acquired taste. If you were to compare lacrosse to another sport you'd be better to use the GAA in Ireland. Gaelic Football and Hurling have much more in common with lacrosse than North America's mainstream sports.

To touch on your points:

Pro sports have a draft and such draft picks often produce a Mario Lemieux or Peyton Manning - a franchise player. If, in trading Attwood, there was a chance St.Catharines could draft a 17 year old Gary Gait and have him dominate Junior lacrosse the next five years then that would change the dynamic of the argument greatly. But the draft does not produce franchise players. I can think of three: Cam Devine(Orillia) Kelly Mitchell(Ajax) and Jayde Gibbs(Scarborough). Three of the top five scorers all time in OLA Jr.A. That was a long time ago and they all ended up on top teams. Plus lacrosse is no longer producing players of that quality, draftable or not. Compared to pro sports, the value of a lacrosse draft pick is a great deal less.

Every year I make the same argument and no one is ever able to prove me wrong. Mid season trading, with one team stacking itself with another's top player for no immediate cost is not fair. I do not care if they do it in other sports, the practice is still grotesquely unfair. The effect on Jr.A lacrosse is even worse as it also widens the imbalance between the haves and have nots. I have 35 years of history to back me up. Obviously the Jr.A Council have no problem with this practice. They can PR all they like and supporters can come here and defend them as well. It still doesn't change the facts. The council is allowing legalized cheating. I assume to stack their top teams for the Minto Cup. Is that right?

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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:41 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:19 pm #9

Or will we continue to see this charity for the rich?
Paul is one of my very best friends that I have but on some subjects he is way off base. He reminds me of an old broken down horse with blinders on it. Still you have to give him credit cause every year he seems to be able to come on here and say something totally out of wack that he certainly knows how to get things stirred up.

The trade to me was a fantastic trade that everybody benefits from. St.Kitts were going absolutely no where this year so they gave up a gifted last year player and in return get a first and a second round draft pick, who each could help them for as long as five years to come while Chris Attwood might have had at the most 4 or 5 games left in a St.Kitts sweater. Whitby were a little3 thin offencively along the right side and Chris Attwood gives them the missing piece to the puzzle. Also give young Chris Attwood, in his final year the chance to be on a Minto Cup winning team. To me I see everybody wins on this deal. I thing it's great how a player gives his all to a team (maybe not in this case) and then as a reward that team tries to give the kid a chance to go out a winner. it makes the playoff bound teams all that much better and the lacrosse fans, at least the ones that actually go and watch a game or two, get to see the cream of the crop and everybody prospers.

I watched Chris Attwood play this winter in CLAX and he certainly won't hurt you defensively and I saw him at least on two occation run back and strip the attacker with the ball of the ball. Good luck to Chris and to all the Whitby Warriors and especially those who put this team together. Smart move.
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:05 pm

Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:01 pm #10

First off, I've not said any league is a bush league. The OLA league is still the premier Junior league in the game. I may not like how it is run on a couple of matters, however that is my problem.

You do bring up a fair point and it would be an interesting and a highly subjective discussion to debate the merits of each league. Yet you can't escape the fact there is a huge difference between lacrosse and these other sports. Hockey, baseball, football and basketball are major sports. I'm not saying they are better than lacrosse, in fact I consider them inferior. Nevertheless they attract mega interest everywhere, while lacrosse is more of a niche sport - an acquired taste. If you were to compare lacrosse to another sport you'd be better to use the GAA in Ireland. Gaelic Football and Hurling have much more in common with lacrosse than North America's mainstream sports.

To touch on your points:

Pro sports have a draft and such draft picks often produce a Mario Lemieux or Peyton Manning - a franchise player. If, in trading Attwood, there was a chance St.Catharines could draft a 17 year old Gary Gait and have him dominate Junior lacrosse the next five years then that would change the dynamic of the argument greatly. But the draft does not produce franchise players. I can think of three: Cam Devine(Orillia) Kelly Mitchell(Ajax) and Jayde Gibbs(Scarborough). Three of the top five scorers all time in OLA Jr.A. That was a long time ago and they all ended up on top teams. Plus lacrosse is no longer producing players of that quality, draftable or not. Compared to pro sports, the value of a lacrosse draft pick is a great deal less.

Every year I make the same argument and no one is ever able to prove me wrong. Mid season trading, with one team stacking itself with another's top player for no immediate cost is not fair. I do not care if they do it in other sports, the practice is still grotesquely unfair. The effect on Jr.A lacrosse is even worse as it also widens the imbalance between the haves and have nots. I have 35 years of history to back me up. Obviously the Jr.A Council have no problem with this practice. They can PR all they like and supporters can come here and defend them as well. It still doesn't change the facts. The council is allowing legalized cheating. I assume to stack their top teams for the Minto Cup. Is that right?
From my stats no team from the west has won a Minto without 3-4 Ontario players on their rosters.

Loading a team from within your province or from another province begs alot of questions.

Maybe the Jr. A league will be subjected to All-star teams like the minors to determine a provincial winner so the
CLA can gain more money !

Paul, I am not happy either, but both provinces are equally guilty.
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