Getting a little crowded in here

Discussion of all machine work. Lathing, Drilling, etc.

Getting a little crowded in here

JT Metalworks
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JT Metalworks
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006, 22:18

05 Apr 2009, 14:11 #1

First you make a hole:




Then your rigger shows up:
(and you park your car's at the neighbors)


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JT Metalworks
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JT Metalworks
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05 Apr 2009, 14:12 #2

I got lucky that we didn't have to dismantle the cabinet. Ended up with about an inch of clearance:




Tucked it under the header, and lifted it back up to put the skates under it (never did touch the garage door either):




Then you push like hell to get it across the garage an into the shop. There were 3 of us on the back side and one up front tugging and steering. No pics there for obvious reasons. :)

And then you park it in it's spot and take the skates out:




:D

It looks a lot closer to the wall than it really is. There's at least 2' between the cabinet and wall for access and the ability to open the cabinet doors on that side. Nothing hits at full travel, and I can still bar feed my collet closer on the voest - which was the general goal.

I won't be making chips with it for another week or so, since all the turret holders are 7/8" or larger and I don't have any shanks that size. Should have new power wiring over to that wall by mid week, and the vfd will be here thursday
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egon
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egon
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05 Apr 2009, 15:37 #3

OK; It looks nice, but what is it? :rolleyes:

What does it do? :o

Did we see a electrical wall fixture that was not level?

And oil stains on the floor! :lol:

Can you qualify for some free money for that thing? :unsure:

Steel Rack? :lol:

Are you prepared to have Uncle Franz move in to help utilize the equipment? :blink:
Egon

Old skin bag full of bones
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storts1
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storts1
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05 Apr 2009, 16:33 #4

Looks Good!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you have enough power to run it??????????? We all knew it was a matter of time till CNC,Good Luck!!!!, Looks Sharp!!!!


Now what Egon said,,those did look like fresh oil spots,so thats means Jim was making $$$$$$$$$$$ :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


PS,Egon,second to last Pic,,what was that a rigger,or a Plumber????????? :o :P :unsure:
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JT Metalworks
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JT Metalworks
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05 Apr 2009, 16:49 #5

I never checked my duplex boxes for level. lol The studs in the wall are all perfectly vertical, but the boxes are plastic and they tweak when you nail `em. Can't see the thing now anyway. :P

What it is: a Nakamura Tome TMC3 9x23" OD turning capacity cnc lathe. The swing over the bed is something like 24-28" (not a dimension I'm all that interested in), but the turret has a limited ability to remove itself from the vicinity of the work when you get bigger than about 12". Not to say it can't be fooled with some creative tool holders (like a "U" shaped one that moves up into the area of the turret), but the rated capacities are more easily definable for conversations sake. My manual lathe has about the same swing over the saddle, so the Nakamura could be compared to a 16" engine lathe in terms of long work capacity.

The oil on the floor is from my headstock on the Voest needing the cover threads repaired. It's not sealed right now, so it weeps a little when you run higher rpms. Lets just say I'm not garage urinal material, because I don't lose any sleep over the leaks. There's leaks in that spot, over by the other wall where it was originally parked, and there will be new ones where it sits right now after I power it up for the first time in that spot. I'm not at all concerned.

I've been meaning to make a material rack, but I don't have the stock for the uprights yet. What you see in that corner is about 1/3 of it.

Franz wouldn't move in, he doesn't seem to keen on working. :D
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JT Metalworks
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JT Metalworks
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05 Apr 2009, 17:17 #6

Jack, the Nak uses 63A at full power (so high range on the transmission, 4500rpm, and then both X and Z axes in rapid traverse while also taxing the hydraulic system), but that's a 3ph rating. My guess is that it's just about 90A on single under those conditions. I'll be putting in another sub panel on the south wall opposite the 100A panel on the north wall where the welders are plugged in. This one will be surface mounted conduit likely running right next to the air lines if I have enough space on the super strut it's attached to. If not, I still need to shorten the one air line leg next to the heater so it doesn't come down so close to a 30A outlet, and once that's down there's only one other support that would need to be swapped out to install longer strut to run the conduit on. I'll probably deal with that this afternoon.

I got a sweet deal on the machine, as the tool holders it came with are worth $1500, and the 10" Kitagawa chuck that's in it is worth at least a grand, then the two collet noses are worth some coin as well and I only paid 4K for the works. :D

The interesting back story on this machine, is that it came out of the headquarters of a major US defense contractor. I'm wondering what it has made and where that stuff currently is... Missiles, satellites, star wars? Being an `82 it could've been any or all of that. Kinda cool to think my lathe made missile parts aimed at Russia.
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Franz©
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Franz©
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Joined: 23 Jul 2005, 17:54

05 Apr 2009, 17:36 #7

Kid machine.

Dern kids ain't smart enough to know which handle to twist to make a part so they gotta haul in a machine that contains a video game to make the part for em.

Sheesh, what has this country come to?
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JT Metalworks
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JT Metalworks
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05 Apr 2009, 17:53 #8

If I wanted the cnc to do all my work, I wouldn't have put the two manual machines in the same "cell."

I also got a 480v boost transformer rated for 25kva with the machine, so at long last I will finally be able to put power to the horizontal. Sadly, there's not much room left for that thing and it's likely to see the highway in short order. I had purchased it partly with the intention of making it cnc at some point, but having learned that older cnc machines can be had in excellent condition for the expense you'd incur retrofitting a manual, there's just no point in doing it now.
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storts1
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storts1
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05 Apr 2009, 18:03 #9

Jim,Wonder if it came from out my way,? we had Lots of work in the 80's, And thats 1 hell of a steal!!!!!! :D,If if it came from Pratt or Skirorsky there will be many stickers,they never take them off,my fork lift stilll has the Pratt stickers on!

Thats not to bad on the Power,what i dont understand,was my old shop had a 200 amp,3 phase power,and with all the antiqueated equipment if your were to add up If you were to add up, had to be well into the 4-600 amp,and with all the guys,I only poped the Main Once,in 28 years in that dungon!!! The tig ran on a 100 amp breaker,and I had guys air arcing, Some body else plasma cutting,which had a 80 amp breaker,and 4 or 5 welders working, Cranes Being used, The offices all lit and the AC on, plus grinders,etc, and never a problem???????

Ran my hand many times over the main box,and never hot!! ???Got me! Oh and the 50 hp pres brake motor running!


You had your Luckie day,what did you have a whole 1/2 " ????????? ,Know it time to make some Parts!!!! :D :D Hey,Maybe it made a Part for chenobal in its background?!!!!!
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Franz©
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Franz©
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Joined: 23 Jul 2005, 17:54

05 Apr 2009, 18:14 #10

"cell"- is that a nasty comment about the people learning to be machine operators who wear ancle bracelets that transpond to locator units?

So a lot of the "students" in the program are also doing a bit of time. There are other students who don't have bracelets.

Sheesh, you act like halfway houses are only for girls who won't go all the way.
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storts1
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storts1
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05 Apr 2009, 18:17 #11

Is there a addition in the making???????

Franz,Lookat it this way, cable tv,dont need a remote,as the channell buttons are right there,,My type of machine! :lol: :D :D

Hey the more parts per hr.the more $$$$$$$$$$ goes in the pocket!! :D :D :D
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egon
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egon
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Joined: 29 Jul 2005, 11:22

05 Apr 2009, 18:31 #12

but I don't have the stock for the uprights yet.
Ain't got no trees in the neighbourhood? :lol:

Franz,he just be upset cause he be thinkin of all the "Not a Building" he could make while sittin back and drinking beer! :P

Dunnow about a plumber or rigger, looks like a lack of braces to me! :rolleyes:

Looks like a nice shop though. :D
Egon

Old skin bag full of bones
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Franz©
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Franz©
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05 Apr 2009, 19:07 #13

Maybe if he's nice to me I'll let him sell connector kits for nonweldors to make NotA buildings from wood.
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JT Metalworks
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JT Metalworks
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05 Apr 2009, 19:43 #14

Lack of braces Egon? What's missing braces? Is that canahodian for "suspenders?"

The front cover isn't installed in these shots, and the coolant tank/chip pan is missing as well- but that's just because I took these while the riggers were still here. I haven't brought the camera back out since and I still have to move a bunch of equipment around now that the machine has been placed.

I don't like wood for a material rack. Just a personal preference. The design I have in mind wouldn't adapt well with wood joined edges, and it would occupy more volume with less storage capacity to make it out of timber. I haven't been to the steel yard with the truck lately, so I haven't been able to haul the long stock home. I'm thinking some 6" channel uprights with some shelves and some pvc tubes for short stock. You'll see...

Jack, the total load is nowhere near 63A most of the time. Like I said, it's a rare occasion that you'd be spinning something to full hp on the main spindle while running both axes to full load as well. They need a rating for the electrical wires, so they measure it full tilt. Getting it there in use would take some doing.

As for coming from out east - I know exactly where this machine came from. It was installed new in late `82 in Edina, MN. Know how I know that's where it came from? The stickers on it concur with the shipping label that my 5C collet nose came overnighted in. I'm not going to say, because the outfit I bought it from wasn't supposed to let that slip - but they left the "needs no calibration" sticker with their logo on it, on the machine. They make rocket fuel and own the largest bullet manufacturing company in the world. I think you can find out who that is from that. ;)

If your electrical panel were getting warm, you'd have a serious problem.

There's no way to add any more space other than going "up" as the lot usage has been maximized right now per the 25% limitation. I could add more to the shed as long as I didn't pull a permit for it (it wouldn't be conforming or legal then), but that's not likely as the elevated gazebo should have more storage space under it for that stuff (and the shed isn't all that crowded as it is).

Nope, the next time I need more space it will mean relocation or elimination of things present (like the horizontal). I don't envision getting a cnc mill in the near future (that could change of course), but if that were to happen, I'd probably sell the excello to make space. The voest is safe for a good long time due to the extensive labor involved in changing a hydraulic chuck or collet nose out, centering the jaws for a different size part (hydraulic chucks only have a narrow range of travel), and generally being more cumbersome to set up. A cnc vertical mill on the other hand would be a lot easier to deal with in manual mode as the only issue is finding your part which means the vise on most of my work. The tools being set heights and the control acting as a dro makes the transition less trouble.

You're entirely correct about the volume throughput increase with the cnc machine. I'm getting back into some products that weren't very lucrative turning them manually due to a number of factors (running dry being a big one), but that will be extremely profitable done on the cnc lathe. Add in the lack of machinist fatigue and the ability to be multi-tasking while the lathe is churning away and it's like having a fast employee that doesn't **** or ever show up late. :)

This also opens up some entirely new products as they're not as labor intensive as they would've been manually. You'll be seeing some of those in the coming months. I need to polish off the semester, and will be hitting it pretty hard come summer break.
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Franz©
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Franz©
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06 Apr 2009, 00:25 #15

Braces is both Limey and upper crust polite society for suspenders JT, neither of whick you probably been exposed to. The Canahodians couldn't afford their own word and they didn't want to sound too American so they used braces.

Jack coulda told you, but it woulda been in code and you'd still be confused.
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