Ekphrasis and Related Forms - Discussion

Osel
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Joined: June 20th, 2007, 3:33 am

July 26th, 2016, 5:20 pm #1

Maybe Ekphrasis? But here's an idea, to mix it up— Why shouldn't a person, folded into memory at a specific point in time be considered a work of art? (and maybe this points to the way the entire mandala: people, place, "things" is a work of art?. . . )
Frank made a comment on one of my Beach poems, that recalls a "silver boy" (his son at a very young age).
For me, that is just hauntingly lovely; the simplicity of it, the strongly visual doing what I think of Ekphrasis as doing--going well beyond the visual—  It (also) brought me back to East Africa, where I lived when I was 13-14, and I was thinking, I might like to leaf through that time, maybe in August.  

so, that's one idea for August. And here's one place to submit to, if anyone still does that hard copy smail mail. 
http://www.ekphrasisjournal.com/home
Last edited by Osel on August 2nd, 2016, 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FranklyDire
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Joined: June 7th, 2015, 6:45 pm

July 26th, 2016, 6:48 pm #2

Well, it's nice of you to say so, but my thanks are to you for evoking such a buried memory from my sub conscience or my brain. Your poem brought out in me, and is that not what the best of poetry is about. So thanks to your poem.

O, tell you a secret, perhaps you know anyway, but I don't consider my self a poet, I'm not good enough.

I had dreams of meter at one time, but I can only write in short bursts.

Now I enjoy modern narrative.

The view you propose regarding ekphrastics as a memory, a one shot memory of a day, a place, and incident, a moment rather like haiku, yes I can see ekphrastics in that way. Why not, the only thing is in a painting, everyone gets to look at the same scene and can stare, a memory is only available to you, and it moves. Have you noticed memories are like video clips, they move, talk, mood, colour really fascinating.

Bernie Henry does it so well, he can write a poem with clips that don't even join in traditional English usage, but in his poems they do, they link. Its like filtering out all the white noise and left with sound bites that make sense and the reader has to put them in, and yet it is so easy to do. That's the delight in his work, a rare gift.

Maybe O we could call them 'memory stick ekphrastics'?

I look forward to East Africa, the Balboa tree, the red earth like Mars. the sound of the cicadas
wood fire smells at dusk, singing of the natives.
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Osel
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Joined: June 20th, 2007, 3:33 am

July 27th, 2016, 2:08 am #3

I was thinking about Bernie also, hope he's well. Why don't you "dig him up", as my mother used to say.
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FranklyDire
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Joined: June 7th, 2015, 6:45 pm

July 27th, 2016, 7:02 am #4

Time is a great healer

things change

I'm almost sure he'll be back when ready.

If I see him I will pass on your regards.
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toniclark
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Joined: May 5th, 2006, 6:47 pm

July 28th, 2016, 10:58 am #5

Hey, what a fortuitous coincidence. I just came to this forum to suggest . . . Ekphrasis for August! I'll make a new forum for it. I have a few resources. Feel free to add others if you come across anything.
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Osel
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Joined: June 20th, 2007, 3:33 am

August 1st, 2016, 5:56 pm #6

Hi Toni, see my message at the end of this.


Why not, the only thing is in a painting, everyone gets to look at the same scene and can stare, a memory is only available to you, and it moves.

Yes, but an ekphrasis (poem) is not a painting, or any art work, but its own, translated through -you could say- the perceptions and memory imprints of an individual. 
The fascinating thing to me is, (more than any words) the person does not know s/he is the True work of art, the finest "creation", (I'm not speaking egoically), and keeps re-creating instant by instant, "re-membering" which means putting members back: like putting body parts back (editing in ) onto what? The Plenum Void. All this going on, on the basis (foundation) of not knowing the Self, and yet saying, in effect, "I" is "me", “of course”. 
Maybe there is a certain unconscious brilliance in, say, being a sometime writer, who learns through taking the part of many others, either through being the "narrator", the "speaker", or the “viewer”, or one half of an “us” that one is not any of these, not even the so-called self penning or typing, or splicing the film strip; whether that self be male, female, married, single, or some of the newer definitions we are beginning to see, such as "fluid". I tend to feel these latter, recent ways of defining one's identity, since it seems we have to, are inching (us as a collective) closer to Ultimate seeing. 

This is what I was getting at that, with my suggestion that beings ( human and other ) could be the subject(s) of ekphrasis, that the term itself could evolve, just as has the whole realm of what constitutes art materials, and art forms. For example, it was a long haul for a lot of “fibre artists” to be recognized for works which may be (are “allowed to be” by some official standards) termed “art”. The same goes for polyform, commonly called by the brand name FIMO, and so forth. (not to be confused with FIMA.

Now the whole unending range of materials, from gut ( translucent, pliable. . .) to grommets to garlic skin, just to cite a few g’s, is perfectly respectable. The days of a poem translating a painting almost seem murky, in memory.  

(necessary PS edit: of course there is "craft" (and kraft, small k) that does not reach the heights or let's say, come from the same place as "art", but with guts and grommets and FIMO here I am speaking of what reasonably could be called "art", in that it seems infused with a certain ineffable spirit, one that can be perceived by more than its maker, if not easily expressed, say, in words, lol.)
Maybe O we could call them 'memory stick ekphrastics'?  FD said

I think this is so apt for Bernie's poems, and what you say about how he pieces 'clips' from everywhere. ( I would add, and everywhen as long as everywhen corresponds to the epoch of The Great Gatsby, say. That might stretch to a century or so. ) So yes. Memories are like video, used to be like film strip 'frames' was the best analogy, but as we evolve better tech we gain new abilities with memory. (really it's just coming to new levels of attention to what was always there, via having new definitions. (As H has quoted, for his poem Separation, something about the naming of things; a lovely quote: it's in simply defining, that something comes into being. Imagine the very idea "let there be light".

!!!

You can slow memory -lets say memory holograms: that’s modern- down, speed it up, 'edit' out high colour (and majorly release emotional trauma). Add in high colour, in new ways that are more conducive to integration. . .There's a lot in neuro-linguistic programming, just for example, that is useful (and easy) for freeing people from even hardcore (like heroin, etc.) addictions and PTSD. I guess that ranges pretty much all over the barnyard, but does hold somewhat faithful to the topic. (Not quite sure why barnyard comes to mind, but I’ve learned to trust what comes through, in selected moments. Often, these days, there is something that’s ‘not for me to know’. )

~

Toni might want to move this somewhere. I'm not sure, Toni, where to make the distinction between Shipyards and SandSculptures. I like this thread's trajectory. I like the idea of being able to have a conversation based on the original post, and that might evolve through the month. Is this a shipyards topic? It seems like it belongs in sandsculptures, somewhere. Do we need a new forum for conversations spurred by forms?
Last edited by Osel on August 1st, 2016, 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Osel
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Joined: June 20th, 2007, 3:33 am

August 1st, 2016, 6:15 pm #7

F., did you mean to type "The Baobab?" Just re-reading your post. You said Balboa. That looks like some other kind of fig. There's a huge one in San Diego.

http://tinyurl.com/gw2oymz

Toni, I just noticed this was in "About SandSculptures" forum I guess it is.  and that seems like an odd place, hard to find. 
Last edited by Osel on August 1st, 2016, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FranklyDire
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Joined: June 7th, 2015, 6:45 pm

August 6th, 2016, 2:34 pm #8

Coming back to this I was struck by O's remark about time slowing,

Einstein says time is relative, I have found this to be true.

Without going into too much detail I have found that time can slow, how I am not sure, but how long does it take to say,

"I haven't time to say goodbye to my darling,"

and yet once in my life I said that to myself in a split second of time and saw what was going to happen to me

and after that split second, time somehow shifted to the next scene.

It happened, but differently, when the young couple passed the gate and I wrote that poem about the girl trotting next to her man. That I would say was an epiphany, because I can't say time slowed, but every second counted. The whole scene lasting all of three seconds, but then filled my head for an hour, then further when I wrote it down I remembered widow Boska. Because widow Boska has always been at the back of my mind, some people would say she was a witch, a white witch meaning a spiritual person of great depth. The look she lavished on us that day was healing, I know it now, but it always puzzled me. She had known my wife since her childhood and so she examined us in great depth and with adoration, and fixed me for a moment and it was pure love.

John (slowlearner) touched on it also in his recent poem about the cry of the Bobcat, how the sound came down through a tunnel in time.

In the Druidic time in Britain, druids were healers, the people held them in great awe. But they were more than shamans they were surgeons (especially in Ireland,) and spiritual healers, the intelligentsia of the nation. They were also bards and poets in the grouping and types, poets have to touch those things that are not always concrete and can touch a world that is there but hidden in the subconsciousness. The druid culture was never a written one although writing was available (evidence found in Europe of a Celtic language), all their formal learning was by rote, the highest levels took a lifetime to learn and very few could take that path. In my novel Non and Ieuan, Non is a druid, and important healer and brenin (leader). Non is known as a saint and a druid or druidess. They knew the Welsh would be subdued by the Saxon and all their knowledge went underground, it flourished for centuries hidden under the mask of the church. Wales has only survived because it retained its culture and language and they celebrate in eisteddfods and the cymanfa ganu. But I digress, the point is we shouldn't be surprised if we are aware of these time shift moods, these split seconds of time that lengthen and stay with us for a lifetime.

To me, they are very special moments and we don't always realise their significance. If we get it right, although not everyone has pondered a Van Goch, the experience we relate could be recognised by a million people.

One note which is completely irrelevant to this conversation was that the Celts had a saying . . and if the sky should fall in. And is carried in one of our nursery story Henny Penny. Poeple ahve wondered about that saying of the Celts thinking they were superstitious, but what it really mean sis there are events that are uncontrollable to mankind, and we have to assign that awful event to a divine source.

So if Toni wishes to move my poem to an ekphrastic forum that would be fine with me.

Maybe all this sounds fanciful, but there is a hidden world of which we only briefly touch.
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