Too many hotrods?

Too many hotrods?

Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

September 20th, 2011, 9:24 am #1

Hey, I'd been needing to take up a hobby, right?

As often as I might complain about 'em- which is only what, once, twice a year, tops?- there really is no such thing as too many projects. Well, unless you ever actually want to get any done, that is.

On that note, I've been trying to decide what to do next. I now have five running, drivable, more-or-less streetable cars, four of which still need work of varying degrees.

As noted below, the white Toronado now runs, and, I'm pleased to say, runs pretty darn well, actually. Apart from the fact it doesn't like to start when it's cold (and it's not just a choke issue, it won't even fire- as if a single accellerator pump stroke floods it) the engine now runs smooth and quiet. It could still use a little fine-tuning, as I have no idea how close the jetting on the random Q-Jet I stabbed on there was, but it's close enough to drive it for the moment.

Most of the lights and instruments work, save for the clock and ammeter. And the lights are, I'm sure, almost all just bulb issues.

The body also certainly needs work, but even that is cosmetic, there's nothing wrong that would keep it from being driven.



The main issue keeping it off the streets is the brakes. Besides the fact they're drums all around- which were the car's weak point even when brand new- it also has a single-reservoir master cylinder. Meaning that if any part of the system springs a leak (line rusts out, wheel cylinder fails, rubber hose bursts, etc.) the entire system fails.

And that's just too big a risk considering it's all some 45 years old.

At the absolute least, I'd need to convert it over to a dual master. That way, if something fails, you still have half the system. Point in fact, that actually happened with a Pontiac I had a few years ago. While sitting at a stoplight waiting to proceed, all of a sudden the pedal went to the floor.

The light changed, and I made it across with some brakes, but clearly something was wrong. I pulled over and saw a puddle right below the driver's door- the line going to the rear brakes had rusted through, and burst as I was sitting there holding the brake at the light.

Had something like that happened with this Toro, the only thing keeping me from rolling into the intersection would have been either the emergency brake- assuming it worked- ir slamming it into park.

Instead of just the master swap, however, I would prefer to do a full upgrade to disc brakes. Not necessarily the full 4-wheel discs like the black car has, but even just the fronts- and to do it right, is not a particularly trivial exercise.

A partial parts list: a new booster (the original is smaller that more modern ones, and thus has less power) a new master cylinder (natch) a proportioning valve, two new rubber hoses (or braided steel) a set of '71-up disc knuckles including calipers, rotors and spindles, and all the fasteners, fittings and new lines. Then there's bearings for the spindles, upper and lower ball joints, and while I'm in there, it couldn't hurt to throw in some tie rod ends.

Oh, and I need to rebuild and reboot both halfshafts.

And statistically, we're going to have snow on the ground within 3 to 4 weeks.

Of course, while I'm collecting parts for that one and preparing to scatter big chunks of it across the breadth of the shop, there's the other newcomer to my collection:



(Image may be slightly Photoshopped. It is my car, though. )

This badboy is more or less equally "almost" as streetable as the Toro; in this case, she needs some electrical lovin'. No brake lights, only one running light at either end (opposite corners, too!) only one functional headlight, no horn, no wipers, no heater, etc.

It may be as simple as a few fuses, a couple of bulbs and cleaning a ground or two. I don't know, I haven't taken the time to look.

Apart from the electricals, she runs like a champ. Strong motor, starts easily cold, good trans, tight steering, nice rumble despite the fact it's an ex-smogger 307. Don't get me wrong, it has lots of issues- rust, a badly cracked windshield, leaky radiator (the black pepper's helping, though) more rust, a badly bent rear bumper, etc.- but most of them wouldn't keep it from being at least an around-town grocery-getter.

So, which one first?

Doc.
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Maker Of Toys
Maker Of Toys

September 20th, 2011, 5:20 pm #2

. . . and this beastie apparently has brakes.

(I may by biased- I used to do a lot of component level repair on electronics, so electrical comes easier to me than to most people.)
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Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

September 20th, 2011, 9:53 pm #3

After some pondering, it might be something as simple as the fusible link having burned out. I can't recall if the lights (head and tail) are on a separate circuit or not, but having the heater and wipers dead might suggest that.

Again, I haven't checked yet. As I said, winter is closing in fast, and I have a lot of stuff to get done before freeze-up. As in, besides these cars.

Though the more I think about it, the more I'd really like to get the Faux-4-2 rolling... Here's another pic I was playing with. (Slightly Photoshopped. )



Doc.

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MephitMark
MephitMark

September 21st, 2011, 3:53 am #4

Hey, I'd been needing to take up a hobby, right?

As often as I might complain about 'em- which is only what, once, twice a year, tops?- there really is no such thing as too many projects. Well, unless you ever actually want to get any done, that is.

On that note, I've been trying to decide what to do next. I now have five running, drivable, more-or-less streetable cars, four of which still need work of varying degrees.

As noted below, the white Toronado now runs, and, I'm pleased to say, runs pretty darn well, actually. Apart from the fact it doesn't like to start when it's cold (and it's not just a choke issue, it won't even fire- as if a single accellerator pump stroke floods it) the engine now runs smooth and quiet. It could still use a little fine-tuning, as I have no idea how close the jetting on the random Q-Jet I stabbed on there was, but it's close enough to drive it for the moment.

Most of the lights and instruments work, save for the clock and ammeter. And the lights are, I'm sure, almost all just bulb issues.

The body also certainly needs work, but even that is cosmetic, there's nothing wrong that would keep it from being driven.



The main issue keeping it off the streets is the brakes. Besides the fact they're drums all around- which were the car's weak point even when brand new- it also has a single-reservoir master cylinder. Meaning that if any part of the system springs a leak (line rusts out, wheel cylinder fails, rubber hose bursts, etc.) the entire system fails.

And that's just too big a risk considering it's all some 45 years old.

At the absolute least, I'd need to convert it over to a dual master. That way, if something fails, you still have half the system. Point in fact, that actually happened with a Pontiac I had a few years ago. While sitting at a stoplight waiting to proceed, all of a sudden the pedal went to the floor.

The light changed, and I made it across with some brakes, but clearly something was wrong. I pulled over and saw a puddle right below the driver's door- the line going to the rear brakes had rusted through, and burst as I was sitting there holding the brake at the light.

Had something like that happened with this Toro, the only thing keeping me from rolling into the intersection would have been either the emergency brake- assuming it worked- ir slamming it into park.

Instead of just the master swap, however, I would prefer to do a full upgrade to disc brakes. Not necessarily the full 4-wheel discs like the black car has, but even just the fronts- and to do it right, is not a particularly trivial exercise.

A partial parts list: a new booster (the original is smaller that more modern ones, and thus has less power) a new master cylinder (natch) a proportioning valve, two new rubber hoses (or braided steel) a set of '71-up disc knuckles including calipers, rotors and spindles, and all the fasteners, fittings and new lines. Then there's bearings for the spindles, upper and lower ball joints, and while I'm in there, it couldn't hurt to throw in some tie rod ends.

Oh, and I need to rebuild and reboot both halfshafts.

And statistically, we're going to have snow on the ground within 3 to 4 weeks.

Of course, while I'm collecting parts for that one and preparing to scatter big chunks of it across the breadth of the shop, there's the other newcomer to my collection:



(Image may be slightly Photoshopped. It is my car, though. )

This badboy is more or less equally "almost" as streetable as the Toro; in this case, she needs some electrical lovin'. No brake lights, only one running light at either end (opposite corners, too!) only one functional headlight, no horn, no wipers, no heater, etc.

It may be as simple as a few fuses, a couple of bulbs and cleaning a ground or two. I don't know, I haven't taken the time to look.

Apart from the electricals, she runs like a champ. Strong motor, starts easily cold, good trans, tight steering, nice rumble despite the fact it's an ex-smogger 307. Don't get me wrong, it has lots of issues- rust, a badly cracked windshield, leaky radiator (the black pepper's helping, though) more rust, a badly bent rear bumper, etc.- but most of them wouldn't keep it from being at least an around-town grocery-getter.

So, which one first?

Doc.
That or have some case of obsessive behavior disorder. Which you are in need of intervention by friends. But if you turn it around and make a profit by selling the end results, then a benefit comes your way.

Hope you have enough wood for the winter. That or do the cats sleep with you during the winter?
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tmk
tmk

September 21st, 2011, 8:27 am #5

After some pondering, it might be something as simple as the fusible link having burned out. I can't recall if the lights (head and tail) are on a separate circuit or not, but having the heater and wipers dead might suggest that.

Again, I haven't checked yet. As I said, winter is closing in fast, and I have a lot of stuff to get done before freeze-up. As in, besides these cars.

Though the more I think about it, the more I'd really like to get the Faux-4-2 rolling... Here's another pic I was playing with. (Slightly Photoshopped. )



Doc.
...for having the rare good taste to go with the notchback body - I hate fastbacks with a bloody passion...
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Webwolf
Webwolf

September 21st, 2011, 2:01 pm #6

Hey, I'd been needing to take up a hobby, right?

As often as I might complain about 'em- which is only what, once, twice a year, tops?- there really is no such thing as too many projects. Well, unless you ever actually want to get any done, that is.

On that note, I've been trying to decide what to do next. I now have five running, drivable, more-or-less streetable cars, four of which still need work of varying degrees.

As noted below, the white Toronado now runs, and, I'm pleased to say, runs pretty darn well, actually. Apart from the fact it doesn't like to start when it's cold (and it's not just a choke issue, it won't even fire- as if a single accellerator pump stroke floods it) the engine now runs smooth and quiet. It could still use a little fine-tuning, as I have no idea how close the jetting on the random Q-Jet I stabbed on there was, but it's close enough to drive it for the moment.

Most of the lights and instruments work, save for the clock and ammeter. And the lights are, I'm sure, almost all just bulb issues.

The body also certainly needs work, but even that is cosmetic, there's nothing wrong that would keep it from being driven.



The main issue keeping it off the streets is the brakes. Besides the fact they're drums all around- which were the car's weak point even when brand new- it also has a single-reservoir master cylinder. Meaning that if any part of the system springs a leak (line rusts out, wheel cylinder fails, rubber hose bursts, etc.) the entire system fails.

And that's just too big a risk considering it's all some 45 years old.

At the absolute least, I'd need to convert it over to a dual master. That way, if something fails, you still have half the system. Point in fact, that actually happened with a Pontiac I had a few years ago. While sitting at a stoplight waiting to proceed, all of a sudden the pedal went to the floor.

The light changed, and I made it across with some brakes, but clearly something was wrong. I pulled over and saw a puddle right below the driver's door- the line going to the rear brakes had rusted through, and burst as I was sitting there holding the brake at the light.

Had something like that happened with this Toro, the only thing keeping me from rolling into the intersection would have been either the emergency brake- assuming it worked- ir slamming it into park.

Instead of just the master swap, however, I would prefer to do a full upgrade to disc brakes. Not necessarily the full 4-wheel discs like the black car has, but even just the fronts- and to do it right, is not a particularly trivial exercise.

A partial parts list: a new booster (the original is smaller that more modern ones, and thus has less power) a new master cylinder (natch) a proportioning valve, two new rubber hoses (or braided steel) a set of '71-up disc knuckles including calipers, rotors and spindles, and all the fasteners, fittings and new lines. Then there's bearings for the spindles, upper and lower ball joints, and while I'm in there, it couldn't hurt to throw in some tie rod ends.

Oh, and I need to rebuild and reboot both halfshafts.

And statistically, we're going to have snow on the ground within 3 to 4 weeks.

Of course, while I'm collecting parts for that one and preparing to scatter big chunks of it across the breadth of the shop, there's the other newcomer to my collection:



(Image may be slightly Photoshopped. It is my car, though. )

This badboy is more or less equally "almost" as streetable as the Toro; in this case, she needs some electrical lovin'. No brake lights, only one running light at either end (opposite corners, too!) only one functional headlight, no horn, no wipers, no heater, etc.

It may be as simple as a few fuses, a couple of bulbs and cleaning a ground or two. I don't know, I haven't taken the time to look.

Apart from the electricals, she runs like a champ. Strong motor, starts easily cold, good trans, tight steering, nice rumble despite the fact it's an ex-smogger 307. Don't get me wrong, it has lots of issues- rust, a badly cracked windshield, leaky radiator (the black pepper's helping, though) more rust, a badly bent rear bumper, etc.- but most of them wouldn't keep it from being at least an around-town grocery-getter.

So, which one first?

Doc.
So, I have heard of this remedy before. I have even seen it in action. But can anyone explain how it works? I mean, just what does putting pepper into the radiator *do*, and how does it work?
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Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

September 21st, 2011, 7:47 pm #7

All it is, is a particle that clogs holes.

The pepper is light enough to be carried around by the circulating coolant (IE, it doesn't settle to the bottom like sand would) and with enough of it in the system, it's carried along with the coolant as it leaks out through a pinhole.

Except the pepper particle can't pass through the pinhole, and so blocks it. It also doesn't break down with the heat and isn't dissolved by the chemistry of the coolant, so makes a long-lasting "repair".

The silver "stop leak" stuff works the same way- it's a "flake" of an aluminum-based alloy light enough to be carried around in the coolant flow, and plugs holes the same way.

The benefit to the pepper is that, in the old days, they used to repair the old brass radiators by unsoldering the end caps and "rodding" out the tubes- literally jamming a flat bar down each passage to knock out corrosion or blockages. They'd also "hot tank" the cores, which again dissolved out corrosion and ate away stuff on the outside as well- like impacted bugs, dried leaves, small twigs, etc.

The pepper was dissolved by the hot tank, or at least soft enough to be dislodged by the rodding, so that the tubes could be properly repaired with solder. The silver stuff doesn't boil out well, and can compact to the point it can't easily be rodded.

That's less important these days, since no one rebuilds radiators anymore- it's easier to scrap it and buy a replacement aluminum one.

Also, it's cheaper- everybody has a box of black pepper at home, so you don't have to drive to the store to buy a $5 tube of Stop-Leak.

Doc.
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Lestryder
Lestryder

September 22nd, 2011, 6:01 am #8

Thanks, Doc. Learned something new today. n/t.
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PyroFiend
PyroFiend

September 22nd, 2011, 7:13 am #9

Hey, I'd been needing to take up a hobby, right?

As often as I might complain about 'em- which is only what, once, twice a year, tops?- there really is no such thing as too many projects. Well, unless you ever actually want to get any done, that is.

On that note, I've been trying to decide what to do next. I now have five running, drivable, more-or-less streetable cars, four of which still need work of varying degrees.

As noted below, the white Toronado now runs, and, I'm pleased to say, runs pretty darn well, actually. Apart from the fact it doesn't like to start when it's cold (and it's not just a choke issue, it won't even fire- as if a single accellerator pump stroke floods it) the engine now runs smooth and quiet. It could still use a little fine-tuning, as I have no idea how close the jetting on the random Q-Jet I stabbed on there was, but it's close enough to drive it for the moment.

Most of the lights and instruments work, save for the clock and ammeter. And the lights are, I'm sure, almost all just bulb issues.

The body also certainly needs work, but even that is cosmetic, there's nothing wrong that would keep it from being driven.



The main issue keeping it off the streets is the brakes. Besides the fact they're drums all around- which were the car's weak point even when brand new- it also has a single-reservoir master cylinder. Meaning that if any part of the system springs a leak (line rusts out, wheel cylinder fails, rubber hose bursts, etc.) the entire system fails.

And that's just too big a risk considering it's all some 45 years old.

At the absolute least, I'd need to convert it over to a dual master. That way, if something fails, you still have half the system. Point in fact, that actually happened with a Pontiac I had a few years ago. While sitting at a stoplight waiting to proceed, all of a sudden the pedal went to the floor.

The light changed, and I made it across with some brakes, but clearly something was wrong. I pulled over and saw a puddle right below the driver's door- the line going to the rear brakes had rusted through, and burst as I was sitting there holding the brake at the light.

Had something like that happened with this Toro, the only thing keeping me from rolling into the intersection would have been either the emergency brake- assuming it worked- ir slamming it into park.

Instead of just the master swap, however, I would prefer to do a full upgrade to disc brakes. Not necessarily the full 4-wheel discs like the black car has, but even just the fronts- and to do it right, is not a particularly trivial exercise.

A partial parts list: a new booster (the original is smaller that more modern ones, and thus has less power) a new master cylinder (natch) a proportioning valve, two new rubber hoses (or braided steel) a set of '71-up disc knuckles including calipers, rotors and spindles, and all the fasteners, fittings and new lines. Then there's bearings for the spindles, upper and lower ball joints, and while I'm in there, it couldn't hurt to throw in some tie rod ends.

Oh, and I need to rebuild and reboot both halfshafts.

And statistically, we're going to have snow on the ground within 3 to 4 weeks.

Of course, while I'm collecting parts for that one and preparing to scatter big chunks of it across the breadth of the shop, there's the other newcomer to my collection:



(Image may be slightly Photoshopped. It is my car, though. )

This badboy is more or less equally "almost" as streetable as the Toro; in this case, she needs some electrical lovin'. No brake lights, only one running light at either end (opposite corners, too!) only one functional headlight, no horn, no wipers, no heater, etc.

It may be as simple as a few fuses, a couple of bulbs and cleaning a ground or two. I don't know, I haven't taken the time to look.

Apart from the electricals, she runs like a champ. Strong motor, starts easily cold, good trans, tight steering, nice rumble despite the fact it's an ex-smogger 307. Don't get me wrong, it has lots of issues- rust, a badly cracked windshield, leaky radiator (the black pepper's helping, though) more rust, a badly bent rear bumper, etc.- but most of them wouldn't keep it from being at least an around-town grocery-getter.

So, which one first?

Doc.
Now that I have my own garage, I'm tempted to see what kind of damage I could do to a vehicle. Mind you, I'm not that mechanically inclined!
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Webwolf
Webwolf

September 22nd, 2011, 10:29 am #10

All it is, is a particle that clogs holes.

The pepper is light enough to be carried around by the circulating coolant (IE, it doesn't settle to the bottom like sand would) and with enough of it in the system, it's carried along with the coolant as it leaks out through a pinhole.

Except the pepper particle can't pass through the pinhole, and so blocks it. It also doesn't break down with the heat and isn't dissolved by the chemistry of the coolant, so makes a long-lasting "repair".

The silver "stop leak" stuff works the same way- it's a "flake" of an aluminum-based alloy light enough to be carried around in the coolant flow, and plugs holes the same way.

The benefit to the pepper is that, in the old days, they used to repair the old brass radiators by unsoldering the end caps and "rodding" out the tubes- literally jamming a flat bar down each passage to knock out corrosion or blockages. They'd also "hot tank" the cores, which again dissolved out corrosion and ate away stuff on the outside as well- like impacted bugs, dried leaves, small twigs, etc.

The pepper was dissolved by the hot tank, or at least soft enough to be dislodged by the rodding, so that the tubes could be properly repaired with solder. The silver stuff doesn't boil out well, and can compact to the point it can't easily be rodded.

That's less important these days, since no one rebuilds radiators anymore- it's easier to scrap it and buy a replacement aluminum one.

Also, it's cheaper- everybody has a box of black pepper at home, so you don't have to drive to the store to buy a $5 tube of Stop-Leak.

Doc.
....but who the hell thought up of the idea, and what the hell were they smoking? (Answer: Probably coolant fumes.)

I am pretty tempted to go and try to experimentally figure out the proper coarseness of grind of pepper that will result in the best seal. =P
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