Sometimes we're led astray...

Sometimes we're led astray...

Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

August 13th, 2012, 12:44 pm #1

While I've been fairly busy recently- hey, hammocks don't just set themselves up on the beach, you know- I'm getting towards the bottom of the list, and most of the time-sensitive stuff is pretty well caught up. The shop's a wreck, but things are progressing.

On Saturday, I wandered over to MCB to see if I could find some parts in their classifieds, and as I was looking around, I noticed they had a quicky contest they call a "Pile of Poo build-off". Basically take a cheap, presumably nonfunctional marker, or a parts gun, or what have you, and rebuild it into something cool for a budget of $100 or less.

While I hardly needed another thing to do, I did kind of need a personal project. Something for me. As odd as it sounds, sometimes I take a break from shopwork... by doing more shopwork.

The rules, as I understand 'em, are pretty open and loose, and I'm not sure any actual prizes are even given out, but what I do know, is that I have lots of boxes of... er, poo.

Those Carbines I put back together a few weeks ago were just one of many such projects-in-a-box. Those, however, needed very little besides just cleaning and reassembly.

One box, however, I'd started thinking about, again, recently- two semcomplete but disassembled Montneel Icons. I've had a Mega-Z for many years now, and while it's a cool gun, it has several aspects I'd like to upgrade. But, rather than cut up my Z, I bought this boxful of parts several years ago, so I could make a Z copy the way I wanted it.

This is a prefect project for MCB's little contest. It'll take some work, some fab, and some customizing to make it how I want, but it won't take so much work I'll have a huge amount of time and money into it.

I sorted out the box, and as I said, there's two incomplete guns in there; for example, I have three bolts, but only one valve, and even that one valve is missing most of it's internals. Here's what I'm officially starting with:



Now, one of the main things I tend to dislike about the Z is that Lone-Star "M-16" grip. I have somewhat large hands, and those kinds of grips always tend to be too skinny and never shaped right. I was at one time going to just put a Phantom 45 adapter on there, but even those are- in my opinion- too small. I wanted to fill some of that space at the base of the thumb to make a fuller grip.

Point in fact, many years ago, I bought a TASO Spartan- basically a Bushmaster pump clone from back in the day, and it, too, had a Ram-Line style M-16 grip. One of the first mods I did was use Bondo to make a mold to make the grip a little beefier.

Here, I wanted something a little more sophisticated, so I basically needed a 45 grip block but with an extension. By the middle of this afternoon (Sunday) I had this:



Milled from one piece, the "tail" fills that space where the base of the thumb goes, and gives a much beefier grip. It feels very comfortable, and there's no weird angles or corners- the grip block is a touch wider than the trigger frame, but again, I wanted the thicker feel.

It certainly wasn't one of the things I'd been planning to do this weekend, but I'm certainly happy with the results.

Doc.
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OmniMech
OmniMech

August 13th, 2012, 2:44 pm #2

But the shape of that marker brings to mind the Brass Eagle (hisssss!) Stingray.
Inline body...fixed feed to the right...the 'dovetail' on the top...and one would assume the tank screwing into the back 'carbine' style, I believe it was called.
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Vulpis
Vulpis

August 13th, 2012, 2:51 pm #3

While I've been fairly busy recently- hey, hammocks don't just set themselves up on the beach, you know- I'm getting towards the bottom of the list, and most of the time-sensitive stuff is pretty well caught up. The shop's a wreck, but things are progressing.

On Saturday, I wandered over to MCB to see if I could find some parts in their classifieds, and as I was looking around, I noticed they had a quicky contest they call a "Pile of Poo build-off". Basically take a cheap, presumably nonfunctional marker, or a parts gun, or what have you, and rebuild it into something cool for a budget of $100 or less.

While I hardly needed another thing to do, I did kind of need a personal project. Something for me. As odd as it sounds, sometimes I take a break from shopwork... by doing more shopwork.

The rules, as I understand 'em, are pretty open and loose, and I'm not sure any actual prizes are even given out, but what I do know, is that I have lots of boxes of... er, poo.

Those Carbines I put back together a few weeks ago were just one of many such projects-in-a-box. Those, however, needed very little besides just cleaning and reassembly.

One box, however, I'd started thinking about, again, recently- two semcomplete but disassembled Montneel Icons. I've had a Mega-Z for many years now, and while it's a cool gun, it has several aspects I'd like to upgrade. But, rather than cut up my Z, I bought this boxful of parts several years ago, so I could make a Z copy the way I wanted it.

This is a prefect project for MCB's little contest. It'll take some work, some fab, and some customizing to make it how I want, but it won't take so much work I'll have a huge amount of time and money into it.

I sorted out the box, and as I said, there's two incomplete guns in there; for example, I have three bolts, but only one valve, and even that one valve is missing most of it's internals. Here's what I'm officially starting with:



Now, one of the main things I tend to dislike about the Z is that Lone-Star "M-16" grip. I have somewhat large hands, and those kinds of grips always tend to be too skinny and never shaped right. I was at one time going to just put a Phantom 45 adapter on there, but even those are- in my opinion- too small. I wanted to fill some of that space at the base of the thumb to make a fuller grip.

Point in fact, many years ago, I bought a TASO Spartan- basically a Bushmaster pump clone from back in the day, and it, too, had a Ram-Line style M-16 grip. One of the first mods I did was use Bondo to make a mold to make the grip a little beefier.

Here, I wanted something a little more sophisticated, so I basically needed a 45 grip block but with an extension. By the middle of this afternoon (Sunday) I had this:



Milled from one piece, the "tail" fills that space where the base of the thumb goes, and gives a much beefier grip. It feels very comfortable, and there's no weird angles or corners- the grip block is a touch wider than the trigger frame, but again, I wanted the thicker feel.

It certainly wasn't one of the things I'd been planning to do this weekend, but I'm certainly happy with the results.

Doc.
I do wonder if this is a contest for well-equipped airsmiths such as yourself, average joes/janes at home, or some combination of the two? It doesn't seem fair somehow to compare plain 'I only used $100 worth of parts' to 'I used several thousand dollars worth of shop tools to customize this marker--but only $100 worth of parts!'
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Hans
Hans

August 13th, 2012, 5:28 pm #4

But the shape of that marker brings to mind the Brass Eagle (hisssss!) Stingray.
Inline body...fixed feed to the right...the 'dovetail' on the top...and one would assume the tank screwing into the back 'carbine' style, I believe it was called.
It was actually a very good marker in its day. All hard anodized aluminum, well made, great performer. It was particularly good in the cold/snow, particularly the vertical tank Mega-Z with a siphon tank on it.

Back in the 80's, nearly everything screwed into the back of the valve body in that manner. The bottomlines came later.

-Hans
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Tenacious221
Tenacious221

August 13th, 2012, 5:54 pm #5

While I've been fairly busy recently- hey, hammocks don't just set themselves up on the beach, you know- I'm getting towards the bottom of the list, and most of the time-sensitive stuff is pretty well caught up. The shop's a wreck, but things are progressing.

On Saturday, I wandered over to MCB to see if I could find some parts in their classifieds, and as I was looking around, I noticed they had a quicky contest they call a "Pile of Poo build-off". Basically take a cheap, presumably nonfunctional marker, or a parts gun, or what have you, and rebuild it into something cool for a budget of $100 or less.

While I hardly needed another thing to do, I did kind of need a personal project. Something for me. As odd as it sounds, sometimes I take a break from shopwork... by doing more shopwork.

The rules, as I understand 'em, are pretty open and loose, and I'm not sure any actual prizes are even given out, but what I do know, is that I have lots of boxes of... er, poo.

Those Carbines I put back together a few weeks ago were just one of many such projects-in-a-box. Those, however, needed very little besides just cleaning and reassembly.

One box, however, I'd started thinking about, again, recently- two semcomplete but disassembled Montneel Icons. I've had a Mega-Z for many years now, and while it's a cool gun, it has several aspects I'd like to upgrade. But, rather than cut up my Z, I bought this boxful of parts several years ago, so I could make a Z copy the way I wanted it.

This is a prefect project for MCB's little contest. It'll take some work, some fab, and some customizing to make it how I want, but it won't take so much work I'll have a huge amount of time and money into it.

I sorted out the box, and as I said, there's two incomplete guns in there; for example, I have three bolts, but only one valve, and even that one valve is missing most of it's internals. Here's what I'm officially starting with:



Now, one of the main things I tend to dislike about the Z is that Lone-Star "M-16" grip. I have somewhat large hands, and those kinds of grips always tend to be too skinny and never shaped right. I was at one time going to just put a Phantom 45 adapter on there, but even those are- in my opinion- too small. I wanted to fill some of that space at the base of the thumb to make a fuller grip.

Point in fact, many years ago, I bought a TASO Spartan- basically a Bushmaster pump clone from back in the day, and it, too, had a Ram-Line style M-16 grip. One of the first mods I did was use Bondo to make a mold to make the grip a little beefier.

Here, I wanted something a little more sophisticated, so I basically needed a 45 grip block but with an extension. By the middle of this afternoon (Sunday) I had this:



Milled from one piece, the "tail" fills that space where the base of the thumb goes, and gives a much beefier grip. It feels very comfortable, and there's no weird angles or corners- the grip block is a touch wider than the trigger frame, but again, I wanted the thicker feel.

It certainly wasn't one of the things I'd been planning to do this weekend, but I'm certainly happy with the results.

Doc.
Do you think labor, expertise, and tool time go into the $100 budget?

-Ten
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Tohri
Tohri

August 13th, 2012, 10:07 pm #6

But the shape of that marker brings to mind the Brass Eagle (hisssss!) Stingray.
Inline body...fixed feed to the right...the 'dovetail' on the top...and one would assume the tank screwing into the back 'carbine' style, I believe it was called.
But the Stinkray was made as bloody cheaply as possible, and it lacked a lot of the really nifty things that made montneels THE go to tournament gun of their day.
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Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

August 13th, 2012, 10:46 pm #7

Do you think labor, expertise, and tool time go into the $100 budget?

-Ten
The rules never said anything about what you could use, or even what you could start with.

It was basically "Take a box of jun or other more or less nonworking or at least substandard marker, and make it work- and if possible, make it cool. Don't spend more than $100 and do it by Halloween."

I may be misinterpreting the rules, but I don't think so. There's no big-money prize waiting, and winners are selected by popular vote anyway- so if you're seen as "gaming the rules", you probably won't win.

In any case, I'm not necessarily in it to "win" anyway- it's just a convenient excuse to work on a project I've been wanting to do anyway.

Doc.
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Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

August 13th, 2012, 10:52 pm #8

But the Stinkray was made as bloody cheaply as possible, and it lacked a lot of the really nifty things that made montneels THE go to tournament gun of their day.
It'd be interesting to put together a detailed timeline of inline blowback development.

Tippmann had the first with the SMG-60, back in... what, 1986? 1987? Almost all of 'em draw directly or indirectly off of that.

The Stingray came years after Montneel- the makers of the Icon and Z- were pretty much long gone, so if anything, it'd be more correct to say the Stingray was a cheap plastic copy of the Icon.

Doc.
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newmaticarsenal
newmaticarsenal

August 14th, 2012, 7:05 am #9

I do wonder if this is a contest for well-equipped airsmiths such as yourself, average joes/janes at home, or some combination of the two? It doesn't seem fair somehow to compare plain 'I only used $100 worth of parts' to 'I used several thousand dollars worth of shop tools to customize this marker--but only $100 worth of parts!'
Start with less than $100 in parts and build something cool by Halloween. Labor does not count towards the budget. Need to take before and after pics. More pics are better. No prize promised or implied. Its just a cool way to see what people come up with. I've seen some nice work being made with simple tools. As Doc said its a great excuse to build something fun. I'm working on a Duck using Phantom parts.

Brian
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Urban Werebear
Urban Werebear

August 14th, 2012, 2:22 pm #10

But the shape of that marker brings to mind the Brass Eagle (hisssss!) Stingray.
Inline body...fixed feed to the right...the 'dovetail' on the top...and one would assume the tank screwing into the back 'carbine' style, I believe it was called.
I take it Brass Eagle is not regarded well around here? And if so, why?

The reason I ask is because business is picking up a little at the place I work, and with the raise I got, I might actually start to be able to afford to tinker a bit again, and I was eventually going to ask about recommended mods for the one marker I've ever owned... which is a Brass Eagle Black Talon 2000LE.

I mean, I can understand that I might have picked up a sub-standard marker. It was what I could afford at the time. And I haven't been able to afford anything else since, at least as far as "frivolous" things go. And at the time, it was a damn good deal for a semi-auto marker.
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