Odd question about odometers, for the gearheads...

Odd question about odometers, for the gearheads...

Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

June 2nd, 2011, 10:46 pm #1

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
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Daniel Meyer
Daniel Meyer

June 2nd, 2011, 10:52 pm #2

The law isn't about tampering with the odo...it's about tampering and using that to deceive.

On the sale of a vehicle, actually on the back of the title if recently issued or on a form if it's not, you have to declare the mileage OR check the box that says the mileage displayed is not the actual mileage.

No big deal at all.

Hmmm...come to think of it I don't think I've ever sold anything that the odo was displaying the actual mileage LOL! (they've all rolled or been replaced or broken)

CUAgain,
Daniel Meyer
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Hans
Hans

June 2nd, 2011, 11:28 pm #3

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
The problem all depends on what isn't working. Is it just the speedometer? or the odometer too?

If neither are working you can possibly fix it as it may be a busted cable or something else in the gearing very soon after it enters the housing.

If it's just the speedo, you have a paperweight. That is, unless you can do watch spring vibrating. The speedo, if it's like all the others of the era, uses a magnetic coupling. One side of the magnetic coupling is connected to the drive cable, the other side to the needle via a spring very similar to the balance spring in a non-pendulum clock or watch. The tension against that watch spring, through the magnetic coupling, is what displays as your speed. Super delicate stuff, and very easy to damage that watch spring or the bell housing of the magnet. If you spun the needle at all, or played with it, chances are that spring is fubar.

-Hans
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Redwing
Redwing

June 3rd, 2011, 1:11 am #4

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
With both of these gents.
Same law applies here in MI.
I installed a set of AutoMeter units in one of my old Mustangs to cure the failed factory gauges.
I'd recommend them highly: that car was my daily driver for four years and 90000 miles and I never had any further issues. I even saved them when I scrapped the car, in case I needed them again.
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Doc Nickel
Doc Nickel

June 3rd, 2011, 1:59 am #5

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
I don't know why the installed speedo doesn't work, or if the two loose speedos work. But that wasn't my question.

My question was, as I was looking this speedo over, I noted it'd be relatively easy to rig the odometer to run backwards, as in the book/movie Christine.

Kind of a pointless mod, but it'd be cool. And the mod would be after the actual speedo drive- only the odometer would run backwards. Speedo'd read normally.

The only issue there is whether that'd run afoul of any odometer-tampering laws. I don't yet know if Alaska has such a law (chances are they do, it's pretty standard boiler-plate) but as I said, I've heard of some places only applying the law if the "tampering" was done to intentionally deceive a potential buyer.

Doc.
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Lakc
Lakc

June 3rd, 2011, 2:08 am #6

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
Seriously, I doubt anyone would care unless you tried to sell it as a low mileage car. If you redink the tenth digits, and put an official speedometer replacement sticker in the doorframe, you went as far as the factory used to in informing the customer the odometer is not correct.
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50blues
50blues

June 3rd, 2011, 2:15 am #7

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
anything over 7 years old the mileage doesn't matter. It doesn't even have a spot on the title to put in the mileage. As far as doing it to deceive I am not for sure.
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Redwing
Redwing

June 3rd, 2011, 2:42 am #8

I don't know why the installed speedo doesn't work, or if the two loose speedos work. But that wasn't my question.

My question was, as I was looking this speedo over, I noted it'd be relatively easy to rig the odometer to run backwards, as in the book/movie Christine.

Kind of a pointless mod, but it'd be cool. And the mod would be after the actual speedo drive- only the odometer would run backwards. Speedo'd read normally.

The only issue there is whether that'd run afoul of any odometer-tampering laws. I don't yet know if Alaska has such a law (chances are they do, it's pretty standard boiler-plate) but as I said, I've heard of some places only applying the law if the "tampering" was done to intentionally deceive a potential buyer.

Doc.
Is not an issue. I can't see how there could be any legal ramifications, unless there is intent to deceive (either about the mileage, or the car's time travel capabilities )
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MarkT
MarkT

June 3rd, 2011, 2:57 am #9

I don't know why the installed speedo doesn't work, or if the two loose speedos work. But that wasn't my question.

My question was, as I was looking this speedo over, I noted it'd be relatively easy to rig the odometer to run backwards, as in the book/movie Christine.

Kind of a pointless mod, but it'd be cool. And the mod would be after the actual speedo drive- only the odometer would run backwards. Speedo'd read normally.

The only issue there is whether that'd run afoul of any odometer-tampering laws. I don't yet know if Alaska has such a law (chances are they do, it's pretty standard boiler-plate) but as I said, I've heard of some places only applying the law if the "tampering" was done to intentionally deceive a potential buyer.

Doc.
As I read this I keep getting this image or your car wearing a speedo. It is a big car, I think a speedo is inappropriate. Best go with full size trunks to keep its exhaust from showing.
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Gunslinger
Gunslinger

June 3rd, 2011, 4:55 am #10

Amongst today's sunny-day projects, is the beginning of a rework of my Toro dash.

The existing speedo doesn't work, and neither does the ammeter or the water temp gage. The ammeter's no surprise, as I bypassed the shunt when I removed the old mechanical voltage regulator and converted to an internally-regulated alternator. The temp gage might be a bad sensor or even poor ground- I installed it with teflon tape.

But besides those, miscellaneous backlight and indicator bulbs are out, too, plus I was thinking of restarting the idea of swapping in a CD player in place of the original 53-pound AM-only radio. The kind that, while it doesn't have actual tubes anymore, it does have inch-diameter transistors and a heat sink that would probably glow dull red if I could find an AM station that played Thousand Foot Krutch.

Anyway, I have, thankfully, a spare dash panel- the big 18-inch-square die-cast potmetal frame everything bolts to. I also have at least two spare speedos, plus maybe a third in the parts car, plus I'll be getting another parts car here shortly.

I've been looking over the speedo to see what might be wrong with mine. I know the cable's good, and it's properly connected, and the gears in the trans are good. But the speedo doesn't even budge while driving.

The two loose ones need a bit of work, but can probably be salvaged. While looking them over, however, I noted that it wouldn't take much fiddling to make it run backwards, Christine-style.

It's wide open, not riveted shut like later cars were, specifically to discourage odometer tampering. (IE, a car lot selling a 90,000-mile car that shows 40,000 miles, and asking more money.)

Now, I have no plans to ever sell this car, and even if I did, there's been so much work done and so many replaced parts that the indicated mileage would be irrelevant. And nobody seems to care when somebody hotrods an old muscle car and replaces the speedo with an aftermarket one.

But I know some states- most states?- have specific odometer-tampering laws on the books, though I know some have the specific qualifier that it's only illegal if it's done purposefully to deceive a buyer.

Then again, it's also the kind of thing that, if I never sell it, and never let a police officer ride with me, I probably wouldn't get caught for even if it was expressly illegal.

'Course, on the third hand, it's also the kind of thing that nobody but me will ever see, so it's definitely a mod of dubious justification.

So what d'yall think? Anyone have experience in this particular field?

Doc.
first, all car SC titles have an option when transferring to check off that odometer reading does not reflect actual mileage.

I currently drive a car with a broken odometer, bought it off my uncle and ODO was broken at time of sale. no legal confusion whatsoever in sales(just checked off false ODO reading box on back of title), as long as you indicate that Odometer means nothing.

Second, i do know though that in SC, we also have vehicle tax breaks for high mileage cars (iirc over 250k miles, plus you have to request it specially once the car gets to that status, some fun red tape and all) , but that should not matter b/c you are not trying to inflate the mileage to claim anything and are instead running it backwards for kicks

hope that helps any,
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