Machine designed by complete idiot needs replacement part. Any ideas?

Joined: July 10th, 2016, 2:02 pm

March 12th, 2018, 7:36 pm #1

So does anybody have any idea where to even start looking for a sixty-inch long hydraulic cylinder that will fit through a 1.25 inch hole?  I have been offered a significant bounty if I can source a replacement for a local shoppie.  I've looked over the wreckage of the machine in question and I'm still not entirely clear about what he was using it for. I mean, clearly the machine is for ramming something down deep narrow holes - I just don't know what it was that he was ramming down which holes or why.

The original had an 0.499-inch ram (the business end was blunt) that fit inside an 0.501-inch sleeve (near as I can measure anyway).  Both were fairly impressive hardened tool steel. The sleeve was 1.10 inches outside diameter. 

But both ram and sleeve shattered when it blew out.  It didn't get bent or bulged or dented or deformed in any way when it broke, the cylinder literally shattered. It put some shrapnel through a nearby wall and destroyed a band-saw.  Fortunately no one was hurt.  One of the benefits of CNC control, apparently, is that the operator is not standing right next to machines when they explode.

The stupid thing is one-third the width of any hydraulic cylinder I have ever seen, and three times the length of any I have ever used.  I have no idea where the original came from, and not a clue how such things are even manufactured.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 6th, 2018, 4:09 pm

March 12th, 2018, 8:14 pm #2

Does it need the full travel of the original unit, or could a shorter hydraulic ram be substituted, with a steel rod on the end to make up the difference?

I'm guessing that if it exploded under use like you say, you are probably going to want something that matches the original design, rather than cobbling it back together. Do you have any manufacturer information on the equipment in question? Model and/ or part numbers might help.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 6th, 2018, 8:32 pm

March 12th, 2018, 8:50 pm #3

Surplus Center of Nebraska (surpluscenter.com) occasionally has bizarre hydraulic stuff available.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 10th, 2016, 2:02 pm

March 13th, 2018, 12:01 am #4

Surplus places are worth a shot.  It was evidently manufactured by the "Toledo Machine and Tool Company" which I've never heard of.  Ultimately I think he's going to have to either find another way to do it or fab his own replacement parts.

The base of the cylinder is threaded - it actually screwed directly into the pump with no intervening hose.  Speaking of which the pump is, unbelievably to me, okay.   The back end of the cylinder was apparently still sticking out of it.  I do not expect a pump to survive the sudden release of what had to be godawful pressure, but this one evidently did.  It probably weighs more than a truck engine block though.

Just looking at the pump, I'm going to have to take back my "designed by an idiot" comment.  I was thinking who uses sixty-inch hydraulic cylinders one inch wide?  But if the same guy built that pump he's definitely not an idiot.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 2nd, 2015, 3:34 am

March 13th, 2018, 12:24 am #5

sfriedberg wrote: Surplus Center of Nebraska (surpluscenter.com) occasionally has bizarre hydraulic stuff available.
I used to work there in technical sales.    The above statement is true and I second the notion to call them.
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 13th, 2018, 9:47 am #6

I have never seen or even heard of such a thing. I will say, though, that the housing should not have been "hardened tool steel"- one presumes there should have been a measure of ductility to it, considering that, like a pressurized air tank, there would inevitably be a degree of flex inherent to the pressure cycles.

You may have to either rework the machine (using something like either a screw-drive ram, or a cable or chain-driven ram) or fabricate a new ram assembly from scratch. The ram shaft should be easy enough- a chunk of .500" TGP O1, A2 or even 4140, suitably machined for a packing gland and then hardened, would be a trivial exercise.

The tube would be less you. You'd likely have to find a shop capable of gun-drilling a 60" bore, lapping it, and then potentially having the bore chromed or otherwise plated, to provide a hard, smooth wear surface for the seals, while leaving the shell more ductile to better resist the pressure over a long term.

Doc.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 17th, 2016, 1:31 am

March 13th, 2018, 11:27 pm #7

according to google, "Toledo Machine and Tool Company" has a bit of history. Almost 500 pages of history according to this really old catalog: https://archive.org/details/generalcatalogof00toleuoft and seem to still exist: http://www.lathes.co.uk/toledo/
 https://www.aida-global.com/metal-stamping-presses/
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 6:07 am

March 14th, 2018, 5:06 am #8

it might help us if there any data plates that you can take a photo of and post it here. with the data plate info we might be able to find the model and parts needed.
Quote
Like
Share