Ive been saying this for years

Ive been saying this for years

Renegade_Azzy
Renegade_Azzy

September 6th, 2011, 2:27 pm #1

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/

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Chris
Chris

September 6th, 2011, 3:18 pm #2

We need more blue-collar workers!

Because SOMEBODY has to do the dirtier jobs
like roof repair, yard work, machine lathing,
and such.

That and outsourcing is truly not helping anyone
in today's job market.
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Z50R
Z50R

September 6th, 2011, 4:35 pm #3

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/
Most of the people I went to engineering college with had not taken any shop classes in high school. Not knowing any of the applications of heat treating or even the value of having some metals harder than others kinda makes it difficult to understand the finer points or even be interested in the class. Having never machined anything in their lives, making metal soft on purpose then working it, then hardening it had no value. Many (more than half) of the mechanical engineering students I attended class with were interested in the paycheck that the school promised them but not the kind of work they had to do to get the money.

I don't believe that the next generation being addicted to technology/social media is necessarily a bad thing. The information available today is far greater than it ever has been in the past. The problem is somewhere between the inability to convert the available information into practical skills and laziness. If we know that the answer is always at the other end of the internet there is no real reason to memorize it. I am guilty of it and anyone who depends on spell check is to some degree guilty too.

Much like Europe has been for years, in our country it is becoming more and more common/acceptable not to hold a full time job until well into the 20s. There is value to a true journeymanship but many people are traveling (on either their parents or the government's dime) without the benefit of the education/work that is supposed to accompany that travel. The spread of techniques through traveling jobs doesn't seem to be working anymore.

It isn't just the young who don't know how to work anymore. Many people after the boomers are just as inept. We have at least two people working for us right now who don't know which way to turn screws to loosen them and they are well into their 30s, possibly 40s.

The big money jobs are in technology but what many don't understand is: A lot like professional sports stars, there are professional engineers/lawyers/doctors who excel above and beyond at what they do. It is not something anyone can train to become and if you are trainable to become such a person, you have to work very hard to become that person. Many people have a convoluted idea that if they go to college out of high school to become an engineer/lawyer/doctor they will become rich. What is the drop out rate? 3:4? Even those who graduate aren't guaranteed a job in the field that makes the big money. What do these people who drop out end up becoming? Their parents have been training them since birth to become some white collar worker but they aren't cut out for that. They don't have any real skills because their parents have taught them that callouses are something to be ashamed of. They end up in middle management. The workers despise them because they have no skills/have no idea what they are doing yet companies hire them because they completed a "dropout degree" (all our dropouts went on to get paper from business colleges).

I'll close by saying that the plumber next door to me makes well over 90K a year (rough guess based on lifestyle). I think that if people realized what kind of money could be made working with their hands and how unlikely it is that they will get the big money job out of school they would be more willing to pursue a real job.
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Russ Kepler
Russ Kepler

September 6th, 2011, 7:58 pm #4

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/
I've always thought that the schools were failing the students they were supposed to be preparing for life - not a one graduating high school have basic life skills like how to balance a checkbook, negotiate a car loan, evaluate lease/rent/buy decisions, etc. We stuff their heads full of "college prep" classes in the sure knowledge that more than half of them won't go or won't graduate after going. When I was doing a lot of interviewing/hiring I'd make everyone fill out an application at reception, even if I had a resume from them. Fully half would fail in the process at that point - not being able to follow basic instructions or failing to communicate something they supposedly knew (their background).

For schools I kind of like the German method - somewhere around 8th or 9th grade there's a decision as to where a kid is going in life - academics or trades. At that point the track through school changes, and the last couple of years on the trades track the kid is really working on a work-study program. Apprenticeship at work, the kids who wouldn't have made it through school graduate high school with a trade and most of the time a job. Even with the "oh crap I'm on the wrong side" issues that's a hell of a lot better than the outcomes of our school system with half of the students going through classes that never have any value to them (those that the school system haven't completely failed with "social promotion" and such).

My son {he of the optical physics} said that a lot of the engineers he was working with had odd views on things. Where he'd take something apart on the optical bench they'd fret and worry that something would break if the did anything. My son would just grab some tools and do what was needed - he even convinced them to put together a shop, nothing much, just a lathe and a mill, but something they could do quick projects on (I supported him on this just so he wouldn't rip down half-done projects in my shop). They budgeted for it, got the machine tools and then wouldn't let him use any of them as he didn't have the 'credentials'. He later found out that he had more shop time on lathes and mills than the guy they hired. He's at another company now.
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CF
CF

September 6th, 2011, 9:52 pm #5

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/
[Whiny Leftist]

Butbutbut -- that's RACIST! Everyone is equal; everyone has the exact same chance of being whatever they want to be! Expecting someone to be a... laborer... is the exact same as as claiming some people are genetically predispositioned to being slaves! You want to keep people down, and reinstitute feudalism! [Etc., etc., whiny-ass Leftist phaggotology]

[/Whiny Leftist]

(In case you can't tell: That's sarcasm.)
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PyroFiend
PyroFiend

September 6th, 2011, 11:23 pm #6

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/
And it really applies to me.
I considered myself about average when it comes to handy/figuring stuff out....then I bought my house in Arizona, there is a TON of stuff I don't know.
Many times when it comes to cars, I wish I was raised more mechanically. I'd love to build an old car in my garage, I can almost afford to do it but I wouldn't know where to begin or where to end.
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MephitMark
MephitMark

September 6th, 2011, 11:53 pm #7

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/
I'm old school, for the most part. I preferred to actually learn something, and there actually was a shop class. There were lathes and mills, but the closest I got was some basic welding.

At my Tech. College alumnus, part of the problem is the school is being run as a business, and MUST make a profit. How to do that? Concentrate on classes that have a minimum of material, just a room, chairs, desk and white board (chalk board are long gone). Reduce/eliminate classes that require large and costly equipment. And stuff as many students in a room as possible.

And who are the politicians listening to for answers? More then likely the same people who got us into this mess.
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Z50
Z50

September 7th, 2011, 12:05 am #8

And it really applies to me.
I considered myself about average when it comes to handy/figuring stuff out....then I bought my house in Arizona, there is a TON of stuff I don't know.
Many times when it comes to cars, I wish I was raised more mechanically. I'd love to build an old car in my garage, I can almost afford to do it but I wouldn't know where to begin or where to end.
I find that the way I learn is to take a blind first step then turn the flashlight on and start lighting up little pieces of the puzzle until I understand. The one thing you need to know before starting a car is that it will cost ~20K before you are done. Obviously that isn't all upfront but you'll pay for the tooling and stuff you can't do for your self (try chrome plating in the garage and let us know how it works for you).

I started a lathe project that is on semi-permanent standby; the cost I have dumped into it are more than I could have bought a similar running lathe for. On the other hand I have learned a lot about restoring machinery. If I were smarter I'd have saved more money and cleared my projects list before taking that first step. Right now I am whittling down the project list and paying down a motorcycle.
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Pirate
Pirate

September 7th, 2011, 12:17 am #9

When everyone wants their kids to grow up to be doctors and lawyers, who the hell is going to plumb the shower and toilet, or fix the car?

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/08/25/why- ... -a-hammer/
In my experience, at a well known Midwestern engineering school, it was downright common for graduating Electrical Engineering students who have taken four years of study...

...don't know how to solder.

I rest my case.
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Russ Kepler
Russ Kepler

September 7th, 2011, 12:36 am #10

And it really applies to me.
I considered myself about average when it comes to handy/figuring stuff out....then I bought my house in Arizona, there is a TON of stuff I don't know.
Many times when it comes to cars, I wish I was raised more mechanically. I'd love to build an old car in my garage, I can almost afford to do it but I wouldn't know where to begin or where to end.
If you have a project that's daunting enough that you just don't want to start it do what I do (when I remember): break it into pieces and do one of them that you think you can do. If you find that you can't do it you often learn enough that the next try works. As long as you're not playing with explosives or high voltage a smallish mistake can usually be undone and the next time you try you know at least one way that doesn't work. If you pick at a project like that it eventually all gets done.
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