Serbian Artillery of World War 1 & the Balkan Wars

Serbian Artillery of World War 1 & the Balkan Wars

Joined: October 9th, 2009, 1:00 pm

October 9th, 2009, 2:14 pm #1


Hello, I found this forum while searching the web for information on Serbian Artillery. I have collected snippets from a wide range of sources but not much in they way of validation. I was so impressed by the information regarding the Ottomans that I wondered if I may ask for assistance.

In summary here is what I have found out: (concentrating on the more modern pieces)

Field Guns -

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 75mm QF's  I believe Model 1907 in 2 versions approx 350 pieces Plus Captures from the Bulgarians (approx 20 -30 serviceable) PLUS many captured by the Greeks as these were incompatible with the Greek artillery. Understand the initial purchases were 168 of the earlier M1907, 188 of the later M1907, & 40(?) of specific Horse Artillery Version. Some work is mentioned as to updating the all the M1907's to a common standard - progress unknown.

Orders from Schneider in 1912, 1913 & possibly 1914. Of these Approx 50 snapped up by Turkey in 1913 which were to be replaced in 1914 as were Balkan war losses though this programme was only partly complete by start of WWI. The 1912 & 1913 orders were I believe Model 1912 & in 2 small batches off approx 20-30 guns (excluding the 50 odd snapped up by Turkey)

Krupp 75mm QF's - I think approx 1904 (?) small no. purchased (perhaps 24?) plus approx 130 to 150 (servicable) pieces captured from Turkey.

10cm & 105mm pieces are recorded as captures but may not have been retained - ref aquisition of Greek captures?

Mountain Guns

Schneider 70mm QF's approx 40+ these were for 9 batteries (36 guns) plus spares. Think M1907

Some Krupp 75mm QF's approx 20+ part captures from Turks, Part from Bulgarians & a few from the same purchase as the Field Guns. Believe these would be M1904 (?)

Medium Guns (ie over 10.5cm)

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm QF Howitzers (variously refered to as M1910, 1911, 1912, 1915 depending on whos army they went into)- Initial Purchase of approx 40. Subsequent purchases in 1912, 1913 & 1914. The first 2 purchases are supposed to be 12 pieces each and relate to difficulties experienced in attacking prepared positions & siege work in the Balkan Wars. The 1914 purchase size I don't know.

Greek catures of Schneider Wpns in this class are also supposed to have been aquired (again incompatible with the Greek artillery)

Krupp 120mm QF Howitzers 30-40 servicable pieces - captures from Turkey.

Older Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm Howitzers M1897(?) these weapons are not QF but like the Vickers 127mm (British 5") had limited reciol compensation on the carriage (I believe like the Brit piece 16" travel). At least some are thought to have spade systems added (again like some Vickers 127mm). Purchase indications are 50+ but comments indicate only 50% to perhaps 2/3rds of these still in service.

Schneider 150mm QF howitzers - 16 or 24  purchased initially. Believe these are M1911. A further purchase is recorded for 1913 but no numbers.

Some Krupp 150mm QF's (Howitzers?) are recorded as captures but model & numbers unknown.

Schneider M189? (think 7) 150mm howitzers - approx 20 - no recioll system??

Schneider M189? (think 7) 120mm long guns (though they have very high ellevation) Initial purchases again indicated as 40-50 but only 2/3rds +/- a bit still in service. Photos look like the French deBange guns of this type & calibre so I would expect no reciol system.

Schneider Siege Mortars (ie positional howitzers) prob 210mm - atleast 12.

Captures of Medium+ weapons from Turks & Bulgarians (other than the Krupp 120mm QF's are mentioned but no numbers or model specifications. Again incompatible Greek Captures from Bulgarians recorded as being aquired).

The above excludes fortress pieces.

Large stocks of deBange system Field, Mountain & Horse artillery pieces are known - 300+

<strong>Any confirmation, correction & enlightenment eagerly sought & greatfully received</strong>.

 

 

 
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October 9th, 2009, 3:42 pm #2

LYON. James M. B. : A Peasant Mob: The Serbian Army on the Eve of the Great War. Journal of Military History, 61/3 (July 1997), pp. 491-492, gives this detailed list of Serbian artillery pieces at the beginning of World War 1 :

- 272 quick firing 75mm Schneider-Creusot M. 1907 and M. 1907A field guns,
- 12 quick firing 75mm Krupp guns captured from the Turks,
- 29 quick firing 70mm Schneider-Creusot M. 1907 mountain guns,
- 8 quick firing 75mm Schneider-Danglis mountain guns,
- 32 quick firing 120mm Schneider-Canet M. 1910 field howitzers,
- 8 quick firing 150mm Schneider-Canet M. 1910 QF howitzers,
- 216 slow firing 80mm De Bange M. 1885 field guns,
- 18 slow firing 80mm De Bange M. 1885 mountain guns,
- 22 slow firing 120mm Schneider-Canet M. 1897 howitzers,
- 6 slow firing 150mm Schneider-Canet M. 1897 mortars,
- 2 slow firing 120mm long guns captured from the Turks,
- 16 slow firing 120mm Schneider-Canet M. 1897 long guns

As for the adoption of QF guns, the first order was signed on 31 December 1906 for 47 field batteries (180 field and 8 horse artillery guns), with 12 ammunition wagons and 3000 rounds per battery, and 9 mountain batteries with 100 packs and 3000 rounds per battery.

In 1910-11 a second series of orders was realised:
- 19 batteries of M.1907A field guns,
- 6 batteries of 120mm M.1910 light howitzers,
- 2 batteries of 150mm M.1910 medium howitzers.

An additional loan, granted from France, allowed Serbia to order a third round of artillery purchases:
- 21 batteries of M.1907A field guns,
- 2 more 120mm howitzer batteries.

In 1912, when First Balkan War broke out, some 75mm M. 07A field guns were in Salonika, awaiting transportation to Serbia. The Turks seized 13 batteries (52 guns) and assigned them to the Chadaldzha Army. After capturing Salonika on 9 November, the Greek Army found the rest of these guns in pier warehouse, and, after a request of the Serbian Government, they delivered them to the Serbian Army.
The exact number of the guns used actually by the Serbian Army is still not clear. At the beginning of the World War the Serbian Army had only 272 Schneider Canet 75mm field guns, namely 68 batteries. Since in 1912 Serbia had 62 batteries, this means an increase of only 6 batteries. Since 13 batteries had been seized by the Turks, 6 batteries are lacking. But in 1913 the Serbs delivered to the Montenegrin Army that at that time had only 14 quick-firing guns at least 12 guns, so we can make the hypothesis that they were some of the missing batteries. The 12 guns missing might be lost during the war or sent to the Montenegrins later (LYON, A Peasant Mob, p. 492, claims that at the wars outbreak Serbia sent almost 100 cannons to Montenegro, which had no modern breechloading artillery of its own).


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October 9th, 2009, 4:17 pm #3

Hello, I found this forum while searching the web for information on Serbian Artillery. I have collected snippets from a wide range of sources but not much in they way of validation. I was so impressed by the information regarding the Ottomans that I wondered if I may ask for assistance.

In summary here is what I have found out: (concentrating on the more modern pieces)

Field Guns -

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 75mm QF's  I believe Model 1907 in 2 versions approx 350 pieces Plus Captures from the Bulgarians (approx 20 -30 serviceable) PLUS many captured by the Greeks as these were incompatible with the Greek artillery. Understand the initial purchases were 168 of the earlier M1907, 188 of the later M1907, & 40(?) of specific Horse Artillery Version. Some work is mentioned as to updating the all the M1907's to a common standard - progress unknown.

Orders from Schneider in 1912, 1913 & possibly 1914. Of these Approx 50 snapped up by Turkey in 1913 which were to be replaced in 1914 as were Balkan war losses though this programme was only partly complete by start of WWI. The 1912 & 1913 orders were I believe Model 1912 & in 2 small batches off approx 20-30 guns (excluding the 50 odd snapped up by Turkey)

Krupp 75mm QF's - I think approx 1904 (?) small no. purchased (perhaps 24?) plus approx 130 to 150 (servicable) pieces captured from Turkey.

10cm & 105mm pieces are recorded as captures but may not have been retained - ref aquisition of Greek captures?

Mountain Guns

Schneider 70mm QF's approx 40+ these were for 9 batteries (36 guns) plus spares. Think M1907

Some Krupp 75mm QF's approx 20+ part captures from Turks, Part from Bulgarians & a few from the same purchase as the Field Guns. Believe these would be M1904 (?)

Medium Guns (ie over 10.5cm)

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm QF Howitzers (variously refered to as M1910, 1911, 1912, 1915 depending on whos army they went into)- Initial Purchase of approx 40. Subsequent purchases in 1912, 1913 & 1914. The first 2 purchases are supposed to be 12 pieces each and relate to difficulties experienced in attacking prepared positions & siege work in the Balkan Wars. The 1914 purchase size I don't know.

Greek catures of Schneider Wpns in this class are also supposed to have been aquired (again incompatible with the Greek artillery)

Krupp 120mm QF Howitzers 30-40 servicable pieces - captures from Turkey.

Older Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm Howitzers M1897(?) these weapons are not QF but like the Vickers 127mm (British 5") had limited reciol compensation on the carriage (I believe like the Brit piece 16" travel). At least some are thought to have spade systems added (again like some Vickers 127mm). Purchase indications are 50+ but comments indicate only 50% to perhaps 2/3rds of these still in service.

Schneider 150mm QF howitzers - 16 or 24  purchased initially. Believe these are M1911. A further purchase is recorded for 1913 but no numbers.

Some Krupp 150mm QF's (Howitzers?) are recorded as captures but model & numbers unknown.

Schneider M189? (think 7) 150mm howitzers - approx 20 - no recioll system??

Schneider M189? (think 7) 120mm long guns (though they have very high ellevation) Initial purchases again indicated as 40-50 but only 2/3rds +/- a bit still in service. Photos look like the French deBange guns of this type & calibre so I would expect no reciol system.

Schneider Siege Mortars (ie positional howitzers) prob 210mm - atleast 12.

Captures of Medium+ weapons from Turks & Bulgarians (other than the Krupp 120mm QF's are mentioned but no numbers or model specifications. Again incompatible Greek Captures from Bulgarians recorded as being aquired).

The above excludes fortress pieces.

Large stocks of deBange system Field, Mountain & Horse artillery pieces are known - 300+

<strong>Any confirmation, correction & enlightenment eagerly sought & greatfully received</strong>.

 

 

 
Field Guns -
see previous post, and add :
1. the horse artillery guns were only 8 (two batteries);
2. order to Schneider were placed in 1906, 1910-11, and in 1913 (I'm not sure of the last date);
3. all the guns ordered to Schneider before WW1 were M. 1907 and 1907A (Matériel de campagne à tir rapide de 75mm, type PD 2); AFIK guns M. 1912 were delivered only after the defeat of the Serbian Army in 1915;
4. as for captured guns, see next post

Mountain Guns -
after the Balkan Wars, Serbia received from Schneider two batteries (8 guns) of 75mm Schneider-Danglis mountain guns. I think they were M. 1908 (Matériel de montagne à tir rapide de 75mm, type MPD1), but they might be M. 1910 (Matériel de montagne à tir rapide de 75mm, type MPC4). According with Schneider, Serbia tested both these models, but till now I am not been able to discover what model it adopted. It is possible that the Serbian Army bought a battery of each model to test them, and then make its choice.

Medium Guns (ie over 10.5cm)-
see previous post, and add .
1. Serbian Army ordered six four-pieces batteries of Schneider-Canet 120mm field howitzer M. 1910 in 1910-11 and received them during the Balkan war. In 1913 16 howitzers were allotted to 2nd Serbian Army and were used during the siege of Odrin. Two more batteries were ordered in 1912. During WW1 France delivered to the Serbian Army at least 16 of its Obusiers de 120 mm modèle Schneider (that is the French Army designation of this howitzer), ordered by the Bulgars after the Balkan Wars and seized by the French in August 1914.
2. In 1897 Serbian Army ordered 24 Schneider-Canet 120mm field howitzer M. 1897. They arrived in Serbia during the autumn of 1900 and were modernized for use of smokeless powder (probably in 1906 or 1907). When in 1910 new, modern howitzers were purchased, older M.97 series howitzers were relegated to Heavy Regiment of Fortress Artillery. They were not QF pieces, without recoil mechanism.
3. Serbian Army ordered 2 four-pieces batteries of Schneider-Canet 150mm field howitzer M. 1910 (Obusier de campagne à tir rapide de 150mm, type O.C. 150 N° 5) in 1910-11 and received them during Balkan war. In 1913 they were allotted to 2nd Serbian Army and were used during the siege of Odrin. It was adopted also by the Romanian Army.
4. In 1897 Serbian Army ordered 6 Schneider-Canet 150mm mortar M. 1897. They arrived during the autumn of 1900 and were modernized for use of smokeless powder (probably in 1906 or 1907). When in 1910 new, modern howitzers were purchased, older M.97 series howitzers were relegated to Heavy Regiment of Fortress Artillery. They were not QF pieces, without recoil mechanism.
5. In 1897 Serbian Army ordered 16 Schneider-Canet 120mm long gun M. 1897. They arrived in Serbia during the autumn of 1900 and were modernized for use of smokeless powder (probably in 1906 or 1907). In 1910 they were relegated to Heavy Regiment of Fortress Artillery. The road brake had two shoes, held to the trail by chains. In 1913 twelve of M.97 guns were allotted to 2nd Serbian Army and were used during the siege of Odrin.
6. AFIK the Serbian Army had no Schneider Siege Mortars (ie positional howitzers).

Captures of Medium+ weapons from Turks & Bulgarians (other than the Krupp 120mm QF's are mentioned but no numbers or model specifications. Again incompatible Greek Captures from Bulgarians recorded as being aquired).

Fortress pieces -
According with the Austro-Hungarian Feldbuch Die Serbische und montenegrinische Armee, p. 30, in 1912 Serbian Army had these fortress guns :
21 - 150mm bronze and steel Krupp guns,
10 - 120mm bronze Krupp guns,
2 - 120mm steel Krupp guns,
8 - 105mm Krupp siege guns,
18 - 9cm Krupp guns,
12 - 18cm siege guns,
50 - 120mm bronze muzzleloader mortars system La Hitte,
24 - 12 pdr (121mm) muzzleloader guns M. 58/63 system La Hitte,
6 - 4 pdr (85.6mm) mountain steel muzzleloader mortars M.58/63 system La Hitte.

Remarks:
I reached most of these informations thanks to "The Edge", a Serbian friend expert of artillery, so I would like to credit him his rights.
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October 9th, 2009, 4:21 pm #4

Hello, I found this forum while searching the web for information on Serbian Artillery. I have collected snippets from a wide range of sources but not much in they way of validation. I was so impressed by the information regarding the Ottomans that I wondered if I may ask for assistance.

In summary here is what I have found out: (concentrating on the more modern pieces)

Field Guns -

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 75mm QF's  I believe Model 1907 in 2 versions approx 350 pieces Plus Captures from the Bulgarians (approx 20 -30 serviceable) PLUS many captured by the Greeks as these were incompatible with the Greek artillery. Understand the initial purchases were 168 of the earlier M1907, 188 of the later M1907, & 40(?) of specific Horse Artillery Version. Some work is mentioned as to updating the all the M1907's to a common standard - progress unknown.

Orders from Schneider in 1912, 1913 & possibly 1914. Of these Approx 50 snapped up by Turkey in 1913 which were to be replaced in 1914 as were Balkan war losses though this programme was only partly complete by start of WWI. The 1912 & 1913 orders were I believe Model 1912 & in 2 small batches off approx 20-30 guns (excluding the 50 odd snapped up by Turkey)

Krupp 75mm QF's - I think approx 1904 (?) small no. purchased (perhaps 24?) plus approx 130 to 150 (servicable) pieces captured from Turkey.

10cm & 105mm pieces are recorded as captures but may not have been retained - ref aquisition of Greek captures?

Mountain Guns

Schneider 70mm QF's approx 40+ these were for 9 batteries (36 guns) plus spares. Think M1907

Some Krupp 75mm QF's approx 20+ part captures from Turks, Part from Bulgarians & a few from the same purchase as the Field Guns. Believe these would be M1904 (?)

Medium Guns (ie over 10.5cm)

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm QF Howitzers (variously refered to as M1910, 1911, 1912, 1915 depending on whos army they went into)- Initial Purchase of approx 40. Subsequent purchases in 1912, 1913 & 1914. The first 2 purchases are supposed to be 12 pieces each and relate to difficulties experienced in attacking prepared positions & siege work in the Balkan Wars. The 1914 purchase size I don't know.

Greek catures of Schneider Wpns in this class are also supposed to have been aquired (again incompatible with the Greek artillery)

Krupp 120mm QF Howitzers 30-40 servicable pieces - captures from Turkey.

Older Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm Howitzers M1897(?) these weapons are not QF but like the Vickers 127mm (British 5") had limited reciol compensation on the carriage (I believe like the Brit piece 16" travel). At least some are thought to have spade systems added (again like some Vickers 127mm). Purchase indications are 50+ but comments indicate only 50% to perhaps 2/3rds of these still in service.

Schneider 150mm QF howitzers - 16 or 24  purchased initially. Believe these are M1911. A further purchase is recorded for 1913 but no numbers.

Some Krupp 150mm QF's (Howitzers?) are recorded as captures but model & numbers unknown.

Schneider M189? (think 7) 150mm howitzers - approx 20 - no recioll system??

Schneider M189? (think 7) 120mm long guns (though they have very high ellevation) Initial purchases again indicated as 40-50 but only 2/3rds +/- a bit still in service. Photos look like the French deBange guns of this type & calibre so I would expect no reciol system.

Schneider Siege Mortars (ie positional howitzers) prob 210mm - atleast 12.

Captures of Medium+ weapons from Turks & Bulgarians (other than the Krupp 120mm QF's are mentioned but no numbers or model specifications. Again incompatible Greek Captures from Bulgarians recorded as being aquired).

The above excludes fortress pieces.

Large stocks of deBange system Field, Mountain & Horse artillery pieces are known - 300+

<strong>Any confirmation, correction & enlightenment eagerly sought & greatfully received</strong>.

 

 

 
According with KUTSCHBACH. A. : Die Serben im Balkankrieg 1912-1913 und im Kriege gegen die Bulgaren. Stuttgart : Francksche Verlagshandlung 1913, pp. 95-96, during the Balkan War the Serbian Army captured from the Turks:
- 39 855 magazine rifles and carbines,
- 8 machine guns with 33 barrels,
- 126 field guns (Krupp 75mm QF),
- 6 mountain guns (Krupp 75mm QF),
- 30 field howitzers (Krupp 120mm),
- 47 403 cases with infantry ammunitions,
- 16 977 shrapnels and 4852 shells for field guns,
- 919 shrapnels and 1811 shells for field howitzers,
- 216 ordinary shells.

According with the same book, p. 127, during the Intrallied War the 1st and 2nd Serbian Army captured from the Bulgars:
- 5 000 magazine rifles and carbines,
- 7 machine guns,
- 11 QF field guns (Schneider 75mm),
- 30 not QF field guns (Krupp 75mm),
- 7 mountain guns (Schneider 75mm),
- 2 QF turret guns (Gruson 57mm)
- 30 ammunition wagons.

Best regards,
Marco
As for the artillery, these numbers are different from those published in 1914 in several newspapers and taken from a report of the Bulgarian Inspector of Artillery, maj. gen. Panteley Tzenov. His report stated that the Serbs captured only 20 QF and 12 not QF field guns. Since the Gruson guns were not listed, it is possible that the fortress guns lost at Belogradchik (2 Gruson and 30 Krupp guns according Kutschbach) were not taken into account.
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 1:00 pm

October 10th, 2009, 11:20 am #5


Thanks, it all adds to the mix. Suspect an approximation from various snaps shots is the best possible - as an example the Krupp 75mm QF numbers in your posts. What material I have on the actions credits the 2nd line formations as promarily Krupp & QF for 1914 so?

Am also in touch with some staff at Serbian Military museums so will post if this produces divergent info.
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Joined: July 20th, 2004, 4:40 pm

October 15th, 2009, 6:47 pm #6

Thanks for those excellent and informatieve posts, gentlemen.

I can not do better, but let me just share what I found in the Franz Kosar Gebirgsartillerie book.

1. In the late 19th century Serbia acquired from France 40 pieces of the 80 mm Model 1885 De Bange mountain guns (P 59).

2. Before WW1 36 pieces of the Schneider 70 mm Model 1907 were bought (p. 114).

3. The Serbs wanted to enlarge that amount and ordered some trial models from Rheinmetall, the 8 cm L/17 Model 1914. The trials were not finished before the outbreak of the war and after that no orders were possible (p 114).

4. During WW1 a number of 7,62 cm Obuchow Model 1904 were received from Russia. After defeat Schneider 65 mm Model 1906 guns were received from France (p 133).

HTH
Nuyt
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 1:00 pm

October 20th, 2009, 5:03 am #7


Thanks for this info - do you have any pictures or links to such for these?

If you have any info on the numbers of trial weapons or numbers of guns received from the Russians I would be very grateful.
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Joined: July 20th, 2004, 4:40 pm

October 23rd, 2009, 8:27 pm #8

Sorry no further numbers, just the picture:
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 1:00 pm

October 24th, 2009, 12:31 pm #9

Thanks, gives me A good view should I look to use / convert some for gamming.
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Joined: July 20th, 2004, 4:40 pm

October 26th, 2009, 7:29 pm #10

Hello, I found this forum while searching the web for information on Serbian Artillery. I have collected snippets from a wide range of sources but not much in they way of validation. I was so impressed by the information regarding the Ottomans that I wondered if I may ask for assistance.

In summary here is what I have found out: (concentrating on the more modern pieces)

Field Guns -

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 75mm QF's  I believe Model 1907 in 2 versions approx 350 pieces Plus Captures from the Bulgarians (approx 20 -30 serviceable) PLUS many captured by the Greeks as these were incompatible with the Greek artillery. Understand the initial purchases were 168 of the earlier M1907, 188 of the later M1907, & 40(?) of specific Horse Artillery Version. Some work is mentioned as to updating the all the M1907's to a common standard - progress unknown.

Orders from Schneider in 1912, 1913 & possibly 1914. Of these Approx 50 snapped up by Turkey in 1913 which were to be replaced in 1914 as were Balkan war losses though this programme was only partly complete by start of WWI. The 1912 & 1913 orders were I believe Model 1912 & in 2 small batches off approx 20-30 guns (excluding the 50 odd snapped up by Turkey)

Krupp 75mm QF's - I think approx 1904 (?) small no. purchased (perhaps 24?) plus approx 130 to 150 (servicable) pieces captured from Turkey.

10cm & 105mm pieces are recorded as captures but may not have been retained - ref aquisition of Greek captures?

Mountain Guns

Schneider 70mm QF's approx 40+ these were for 9 batteries (36 guns) plus spares. Think M1907

Some Krupp 75mm QF's approx 20+ part captures from Turks, Part from Bulgarians & a few from the same purchase as the Field Guns. Believe these would be M1904 (?)

Medium Guns (ie over 10.5cm)

Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm QF Howitzers (variously refered to as M1910, 1911, 1912, 1915 depending on whos army they went into)- Initial Purchase of approx 40. Subsequent purchases in 1912, 1913 & 1914. The first 2 purchases are supposed to be 12 pieces each and relate to difficulties experienced in attacking prepared positions & siege work in the Balkan Wars. The 1914 purchase size I don't know.

Greek catures of Schneider Wpns in this class are also supposed to have been aquired (again incompatible with the Greek artillery)

Krupp 120mm QF Howitzers 30-40 servicable pieces - captures from Turkey.

Older Schneider-Canet / Cresout 120mm Howitzers M1897(?) these weapons are not QF but like the Vickers 127mm (British 5") had limited reciol compensation on the carriage (I believe like the Brit piece 16" travel). At least some are thought to have spade systems added (again like some Vickers 127mm). Purchase indications are 50+ but comments indicate only 50% to perhaps 2/3rds of these still in service.

Schneider 150mm QF howitzers - 16 or 24  purchased initially. Believe these are M1911. A further purchase is recorded for 1913 but no numbers.

Some Krupp 150mm QF's (Howitzers?) are recorded as captures but model & numbers unknown.

Schneider M189? (think 7) 150mm howitzers - approx 20 - no recioll system??

Schneider M189? (think 7) 120mm long guns (though they have very high ellevation) Initial purchases again indicated as 40-50 but only 2/3rds +/- a bit still in service. Photos look like the French deBange guns of this type & calibre so I would expect no reciol system.

Schneider Siege Mortars (ie positional howitzers) prob 210mm - atleast 12.

Captures of Medium+ weapons from Turks & Bulgarians (other than the Krupp 120mm QF's are mentioned but no numbers or model specifications. Again incompatible Greek Captures from Bulgarians recorded as being aquired).

The above excludes fortress pieces.

Large stocks of deBange system Field, Mountain & Horse artillery pieces are known - 300+

<strong>Any confirmation, correction & enlightenment eagerly sought & greatfully received</strong>.

 

 

 
This is mostly a series of questions based on things I have run down. Information in English is like finding hen's teeth!

1. Serbian MG's. There is a Serbian M1909 in the Belgrade Museum on wheels but no shield looking otherwise like the Russian MG's. I have seen photos of Serbian MG's looking like German MG08 (but refered to as M1910) and also a photo of a Serbian Maxim on a tripod?

Are these all the types they Had?

Based on text data I get approx 240 MG's based on 4MG's per 1st Line (8) & 2nd (5) Line Infantry Regiment (in an organised Division!), Plus 4 per Cavalry Regiment in the Cavalry Division & in a 1st Line Infantry Division . There were supposed to be 24 suppernumary Regigments of Infantry but I have only allowed for 8 being those in the Combined Division & Bregalnika Division (think this was not fully formed). The Vardar Division units are numbered Inf Regiments 21 to 24. This does assume that the remaining suppernummery inf regiments were not fully formed & / or equipped. Does this stack up?

A lot of MG's were captured in the 3 1914 invasions off the Austrians - around 300 as serviceable weapons. All my info here here is secondary sources & the web on the various battles. Does this agree with on english sources available to you guys? I equally assume that these captures went to Both increase the per unit allocation & to widen it - any comments please?

The Weapons of the Border Guards Companies & Gendarmre Battalions are NOT part of the Army Stocks but both units did have MG's (no info of what numbers or ratio) & some other support - my guess is positional weapons?

Captured Artillery - from tha Austrians - The Total Captures (ie serviceable even if needing some repair) I have hunted down as 180 guns and some very impressive stocks of Ammo. Does anybody have info on the make up of these guns? Based on OB's & ratio's I would assume 70% to 80% Field Guns (probably some of this as Mountain Guns - perhaps 30%?), 20% to 25% Field Howitzers and perhaps 5% Heavier?

Given Losses & Disease - Serbia's biggest issue in 1915 was Man Power. In these circumstances I assume that except for positional deployments & Heavy pieces the vast bulk of the Artillery would be QF's. The losses of 1914 and the remaining non QF Field pieces being replaced from Austrian Largesse?

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