[Tutorial] Making an Ocarina in a Predetermined Key

Evil_Intentions
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Joined: November 29th, 2010, 2:51 am

December 2nd, 2010, 4:58 am #1

2 duplicate topics combined.

To use my method, you MUST have your fipple hole size determined. Note: for many reasons this method will work best with a rectangular ocarina

My predetermined fipple hole is 1/2 inches wide X 1/4 inches. Making an area of 1/8. We need to get a DIAMETER from this, even though i am using a square fipple.

so pi*r^2 = 1/8

r = sqrt(1/8) / pi
Diameter = 2(sqrt(1/8)/pi)

so my fipple diameter is about .4 inches. and about is good enough here.

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Now that the diameter is found, we will use an equation to find our desired volume.

V = 1/ (((F/2148.14)^2)/D)

where F is your frequency in hertz (reference) and D is your diameter that you found.

If you plan on making a 10 or less hole ocarina, then your frequency will be the one desired (523.25 for C5)
if you want a 12 hole oc, which means sub holes, then you want to use the note two notes below the tonic of the scale you wish to create. (i want a 12 in C5, so i use A4,440, as my F)

so i plan on making a 10 hole in C. The rest of the tutorial will be based on this.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

so in my case, my equation will look like this:

V = 1/(((523.25/2148.14)^2)/.4)

so let me simplify/work this:

V = 1/(.243583^2/.4)
V = 1/(.059333/.4)
V = 1/1.48331
v = 6.74168

So my volume SHOULD have to be about 6.8 cubic inches. So my chamber will be a rectangle 2in X 4in X 17/20 in


Thats it. I have not had a chance to test my theory yet, and plan to do so this weekend by building my first ocarina to these specs. This technique really only lends itself to rectangular ocarina making because you can cut a rectangular chamber with the proper tools.

Images of my plan thus far. Everything is to finished size exept the holes, but even those can be figured out exactly by using the above method. I will save that for later :D
[+] Spoiler


The finished ocarina will be 2.5 inches wide, 4.75 inches long, and 1.25 inches thick. The inner chamber will be 2 x 4 x 17/20

This is all pretty straight forward algebra. I am a junior in high school and i CAME UP with this using a formula for helmholtz resonance with a given aperture, so i expect you to TRY to understand before posting questions. Tomorow i will be updating this thread with a program that will automatically find the volume for those who are mathematically challenged.

Reminder to readers: again, this has not been tested YET, but will most likely be done this weekend. I post it in the hopes that someone with the materials ready can give it a shot.
note to moderators: this will be posted on both the tutorial, and ocarina making forums to ensure max viewage. Feel free to delete the one you feel doesn't belong in that section.

Questions, just ask :D :whistle:
Here is the program i promised. Makes the math quite a bit easier 8-D
FreqCalc.zip (129.6 KiB)
FreqCalc.zip (129.6 KiB)
Last edited by speckles on December 4th, 2010, 4:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
I made a formula to determine an ocarina's pitch before making it. Information : POC Video
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dwent
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dwent
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December 3rd, 2010, 6:46 pm #2

that is genius. :clap: and a quick written command line program to do the hard work for those allergic to numbers.
questions about that program... units of measurement are irrelevant correct? i enter aperture in metric, i get volume in metric.
second, when it asks for the speed of air... have you determined any average or standard values that can be input here? i didnt see any mention of this in the above post, so i wasn't sure what number is relevant.
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Evil_Intentions
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December 3rd, 2010, 10:10 pm #3

Its c++ not command line 8-D

And as long as all units are constant. Inches/second for speed of sound, INches for aperture diameter, Inches cubed for volume then it will all work.

Speed of sound is 343.2 m/s:

13560 in/s
34300.2 cm/s
343000.2 mm/s

Those are the most common measurements

speed of air/sound(dont remember what i have in the program) gets divided my 2*pi, so in my above post i am using inches. 13560/(2*pi) is about 2158.14
Last edited by Evil_Intentions on December 3rd, 2010, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I made a formula to determine an ocarina's pitch before making it. Information : POC Video
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Sherb
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Joined: February 27th, 2009, 10:35 pm

December 4th, 2010, 2:17 am #4

Thanks for this~!

even though I don't understand half of it, I'm sure many people will find this helpful.

I'm gonna move this to ocarina making, and pin it up there.
Maybe it will stop the 9000+ threads we get on this topic.
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speckles
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Joined: April 25th, 2008, 9:00 am

December 4th, 2010, 5:36 am #5

From your images, I'm assuming you are using wood. (nice graphics, BTW) This could be built from clay, using clay slabs, but clay shrinkage would need to be factored in, or did I miss that? Clay typically shrinks from 5 - 10% depending on the type used


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Evil_Intentions
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Joined: November 29th, 2010, 2:51 am

December 4th, 2010, 6:20 am #6

@sherb No problem :D i remember seeing someone say "You cant just MAKE an ocarina in the key you want. You have to try many times to perfect it" i thought to myself "challenge accepted.

I finished gouging out the centers of my two halves. I will be doing the voicing tomorrow. If my first ocarina EVER plays a C the first try, i will be amazed. :jumpy:

I would again like to remind readers that this is not FULLY proven yet. I say fully, because i made a few ocarinas out of paper using my methods, and all were within a semitone from the predicted key. Tomorrow will be the confirmation.


@speckles I have never worked with clay ever, and this is my first ocarina, so i am definitely not the one to ask

I made a formula to determine an ocarina's pitch before making it. Information : POC Video
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Sigurthr
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Joined: January 28th, 2010, 7:41 pm

December 4th, 2010, 6:33 am #7

Remember that for the pitch to be exact you may need to add in to calculations about air tempurature/density.

The volume of air inside correlates to the pitch by way of the density of the air, if it is not factored in you may have a different pitch in the product. (it all depends on your math and your particular formulas, I'm a theoretical guy not a numbers guy so I can't check to see if you've incorporated it or not)

A440 = X volume @ Y temperature, not just A440 = X.
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Evil_Intentions
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Joined: November 29th, 2010, 2:51 am

December 4th, 2010, 6:42 am #8

Sigurthr wrote:Remember that for the pitch to be exact you may need to add in to calculations about air tempurature/density.

The volume of air inside correlates to the pitch by way of the density of the air, if it is not factored in you may have a different pitch in the product. (it all depends on your math and your particular formulas, I'm a theoretical guy not a numbers guy so I can't check to see if you've incorporated it or not)

A440 = X volume @ Y temperature, not just A440 = X.
Ah, but temperature/density is already factored in.


EDIT: my bad. One can't really factor in temperature, but normal air density is factored in already.
Last edited by Evil_Intentions on December 4th, 2010, 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
I made a formula to determine an ocarina's pitch before making it. Information : POC Video
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Goudy Stout
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December 5th, 2010, 5:09 am #9

I admire the fact that you worked all this out and made a program. You have helped many people greatly.

The only problem is that there is much more to ocarina making than just the key it is in. Your first ocarina will probably not have a good timbre or range (it will get airy by the higher notes). All this can be measured, but its the experience that can give you a good timbre as you know what to look for. If you're making proper wooden, clay or any material ocarinas, experience will generally be better than mathematics, also, by the time you can get a good range and timbre out of your ocarinas, you should be able to guess well the size of a certain key and get within a semitone of it (the ocarinas pitch is very unstable, a semitone out should still be able to play in the desired key if made properly).

I am very excited to see the result of this ocarina though, and i hope that you make it well enough to get a good tone out of it :)
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Evil_Intentions
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December 6th, 2010, 2:19 am #10

Goudy Stout wrote:I admire the fact that you worked all this out and made a program. You have helped many people greatly.

The only problem is that there is much more to ocarina making than just the key it is in. Your first ocarina will probably not have a good timbre or range (it will get airy by the higher notes). All this can be measured, but its the experience that can give you a good timbre as you know what to look for. If you're making proper wooden, clay or any material ocarinas, experience will generally be better than mathematics, also, by the time you can get a good range and timbre out of your ocarinas, you should be able to guess well the size of a certain key and get within a semitone of it (the ocarinas pitch is very unstable, a semitone out should still be able to play in the desired key if made properly).

I am very excited to see the result of this ocarina though, and i hope that you make it well enough to get a good tone out of it :)
You seak truth my friend. My first attempt failed. I gouged out the middle of each hlaf, made voicing etc...etc..and no tone, not a sound. I have a backup that is made of 6, 1/4inch walls. I will see how that turns out.
I made a formula to determine an ocarina's pitch before making it. Information : POC Video
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