Sigurthr
Quadruple Ocarinist x 2
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Joined: January 28th, 2010, 7:41 pm

August 19th, 2010, 5:16 pm #11

Thanks =). I wouldn't want to argue anyway, I respect your opinion on things like this.
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Krešimir Cindrić
Quadruple Ocarinist x 5
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Joined: May 14th, 2009, 1:31 pm

October 20th, 2010, 5:50 pm #12

I disagree with the use of the term "subtonic notes" in the chart.
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Sigurthr
Quadruple Ocarinist x 2
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Joined: January 28th, 2010, 7:41 pm

October 20th, 2010, 5:52 pm #13

Yes, I know you do, and I would love to change it for a correct term! But if I do no one will know what we are talking about. Think of synonym for it or a 1 line explanation, and I'll include it in!
Flutist and Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator
::Disclaimer - If my comments seem to be odd or creepy at times, it is only because you haven't been a part of TON long enough to know me. Just ask some of the Senior Members, they'll fill you in. /eyebrowraise. ::
[+] My Instruments
Flute:
- Conn-Selmer: The Sir James Galway Spirit - JG3BO
- Aulos Grenser A=440 Traverso
- Antique Huller Lyon-Healy Meyer 19th Century Orchestral Flute

Ocarina:
- Hind: Tenor F Transverse in Cocobolo & Bloodwood

Recorder:
- Yamaha: 300 Series C Baroque Recorders
[+] Ocarinas Sold
Pacchioni: DoppiaV C3, Mi3
Menaglio: Do3
Hind: Inline TF, Bb, Harmony, DIY, Sop-F
Maparam: DAC
Focalink: DAC, DSG, SG
Songbird: 5-hole OoT, DT 13-hole D, Hylian Shield
Mountain Ocarinas: Poly C, Poly G Vampire, Cocobolo G
Solist: Plastic SC, Plastic AC
Noble: DAC
STL: Rupee SC, Plastic TAC
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Krešimir Cindrić
Quadruple Ocarinist x 5
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Joined: May 14th, 2009, 1:31 pm

October 20th, 2010, 5:54 pm #14

A tone played with a sub-hole? A sub-hole tone?

Last edited by Krešimir Cindrić on October 20th, 2010, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sigurthr
Quadruple Ocarinist x 2
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Joined: January 28th, 2010, 7:41 pm

October 20th, 2010, 6:13 pm #15

that works! "Sub-hole Tone" it is.

You do realize where people got subtonic from, right? Tone -> tonal, not tonic. Incorrect modification linguistically to say "referring to a tone" would lead to "tonic" instead of "tonal". Likewise rearranging commonly phrased words would create a situation where it is very easy to create the wrong term. example: saying "the sub hole's tonality " then shifting to talk about the the hole which creates that tone: "the sub tonic's holes". Saying "the sub tonal's holes" would be incorrect grammatically, as tonal is not a noun, which only reinforced the incorrect term because grammatically it sounds correct.
Flutist and Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator
::Disclaimer - If my comments seem to be odd or creepy at times, it is only because you haven't been a part of TON long enough to know me. Just ask some of the Senior Members, they'll fill you in. /eyebrowraise. ::
[+] My Instruments
Flute:
- Conn-Selmer: The Sir James Galway Spirit - JG3BO
- Aulos Grenser A=440 Traverso
- Antique Huller Lyon-Healy Meyer 19th Century Orchestral Flute

Ocarina:
- Hind: Tenor F Transverse in Cocobolo & Bloodwood

Recorder:
- Yamaha: 300 Series C Baroque Recorders
[+] Ocarinas Sold
Pacchioni: DoppiaV C3, Mi3
Menaglio: Do3
Hind: Inline TF, Bb, Harmony, DIY, Sop-F
Maparam: DAC
Focalink: DAC, DSG, SG
Songbird: 5-hole OoT, DT 13-hole D, Hylian Shield
Mountain Ocarinas: Poly C, Poly G Vampire, Cocobolo G
Solist: Plastic SC, Plastic AC
Noble: DAC
STL: Rupee SC, Plastic TAC
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Krešimir Cindrić
Quadruple Ocarinist x 5
Quadruple Ocarinist x 5
Joined: May 14th, 2009, 1:31 pm

October 20th, 2010, 6:14 pm #16

I think its origin is from the misconception that "C = tonic" on an ocarina in C. B and A are below C, so they must be "sub-tonic" :facepalm:
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Sigurthr
Quadruple Ocarinist x 2
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Joined: January 28th, 2010, 7:41 pm

October 20th, 2010, 6:18 pm #17

Well either way it's fixed!
Flutist and Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator
::Disclaimer - If my comments seem to be odd or creepy at times, it is only because you haven't been a part of TON long enough to know me. Just ask some of the Senior Members, they'll fill you in. /eyebrowraise. ::
[+] My Instruments
Flute:
- Conn-Selmer: The Sir James Galway Spirit - JG3BO
- Aulos Grenser A=440 Traverso
- Antique Huller Lyon-Healy Meyer 19th Century Orchestral Flute

Ocarina:
- Hind: Tenor F Transverse in Cocobolo & Bloodwood

Recorder:
- Yamaha: 300 Series C Baroque Recorders
[+] Ocarinas Sold
Pacchioni: DoppiaV C3, Mi3
Menaglio: Do3
Hind: Inline TF, Bb, Harmony, DIY, Sop-F
Maparam: DAC
Focalink: DAC, DSG, SG
Songbird: 5-hole OoT, DT 13-hole D, Hylian Shield
Mountain Ocarinas: Poly C, Poly G Vampire, Cocobolo G
Solist: Plastic SC, Plastic AC
Noble: DAC
STL: Rupee SC, Plastic TAC
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ubizmo
Triple Ocarinist x 4
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Joined: September 10th, 2008, 10:31 pm

October 20th, 2010, 6:35 pm #18

Krešimir Cindrić wrote:I think its origin is from the misconception that "C = tonic" on an ocarina in C. B and A are below C, so they must be "sub-tonic" :facepalm:
I disagree. The tonic note is the first note of a scale, yes, but ocarinas (and other wind instruments) are tuned to a fundamental scale. The notes below the tonic of that scale are sub-tonic in the precise sense that they are below the lowest note of the fundamental scale of the instrument. The lowest note of many C5 ocarinas is A4, and it is certainly possible to play an A major scale starting at A4. But it would be misleading to call it an ocarina tuned to A4. It's tuned to C5 with notes below the tonic of that scale. Again, the lowest note on a Bb tenor sax is a concert Ab, and although it's certainly possible to play an Ab major scale starting on that note, it's not an Ab tenor sax. Once again, some soprano recorders have a low B foot, but they are still C recorders. What makes recorders, saxes, ocarinas, and many other instruments "in" the key that they're in is the key of the fundamental scale for that instrument.

Ubizmo

Some of my videos are now used promotionally by Mountain Ocarinas.
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Krešimir Cindrić
Quadruple Ocarinist x 5
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Joined: May 14th, 2009, 1:31 pm

October 20th, 2010, 6:41 pm #19

Even if what you say is true, the notes played using sub-holes are not subtonic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtonic

Most of ocarinas are chromatic instruments - they are not tuned in a specific scale any more than piano is.
Last edited by Krešimir Cindrić on October 20th, 2010, 8:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Tentenguy
Double Ocarinist x 4
Double Ocarinist x 4
Joined: February 8th, 2009, 2:03 pm

October 20th, 2010, 7:43 pm #20

Actually kres, even if an instrument is chromatic, it has a 'native' scale. For a C ocarina, the native scale is C, for a B flat clarinet it's B flat, etc. Pianos are easiest to play in C, because you can completely ignore the black keys. While I don't use the term subtonic, I still think that it is okay to use.
Also, you posted the link twice in a rowtiwce in a row. it's really http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtonic
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