Who Wants Rapido to Make the Washboards Survey

An open forum to discuss all aspects of the New Haven Railroad.
rapidotrains
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Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 2:41 pm

February 5th, 2018, 4:32 pm #21

tedwentz wrote: As for the business case regarding demand. Surely the demand for these cars is as great as the demand for 8600 or even "American Flyer" coaches and parlor cars. Evidently ConCor had little trouble selling Pennsy MP54 commuter cars and the prototype cars operated in a similar sized commercial market to the New Haven cars. The ConCors were nicely engineered with powered and unpowered versions. The powered ones even had traction tire bands and could pull quite a long consist. Atlas appears to be doing quite well with their NJT double deckers, so I have to believe the current market likes commuter cars.
Your models are the best in the business, I have quite a few, and I look forward to you deciding to green light a Washboard project. Put me down for two powered and 2 unpowered in the delivery scheme.
Heck, I would even sell my NJCB brass 3 car set! 
Ted
Thanks for your confidence in us!

Unfortunately we have a couple of hurdles to doing just a separate powered and an unpowered model.

1. Our models are hugely detailed. There are roughly the same number of parts in an 8600 interior as there are in an entire MP54 model. So our models cost a lot more to produce. We would need to sell a much higher powered to unpowered ratio to make this work because our margins on the unpowered models are so small.

2. Because we have complete interior and underbody detail, we have to use very small motors. They will burn out if they pull more than one additional car. If we offer a powered and an unpowered version separately, you can bet that someone will try to pull 10 washboards with one powered model and he will totally destroy it. And by "someone" I mean "almost everyone." That's a warranty headache we should do our best to avoid....

-Jason
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tedwentz
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Joined: January 8th, 2017, 3:13 pm

February 5th, 2018, 6:26 pm #22

rapidotrains wrote:
tedwentz wrote: As for the business case regarding demand. Surely the demand for these cars is as great as the demand for 8600 or even "American Flyer" coaches and parlor cars. Evidently ConCor had little trouble selling Pennsy MP54 commuter cars and the prototype cars operated in a similar sized commercial market to the New Haven cars. The ConCors were nicely engineered with powered and unpowered versions. The powered ones even had traction tire bands and could pull quite a long consist. Atlas appears to be doing quite well with their NJT double deckers, so I have to believe the current market likes commuter cars.
Your models are the best in the business, I have quite a few, and I look forward to you deciding to green light a Washboard project. Put me down for two powered and 2 unpowered in the delivery scheme.
Heck, I would even sell my NJCB brass 3 car set! 
Ted
Thanks for your confidence in us!

Unfortunately we have a couple of hurdles to doing just a separate powered and an unpowered model.

1. Our models are hugely detailed. There are roughly the same number of parts in an 8600 interior as there are in an entire MP54 model. So our models cost a lot more to produce. We would need to sell a much higher powered to unpowered ratio to make this work because our margins on the unpowered models are so small.

2. Because we have complete interior and underbody detail, we have to use very small motors. They will burn out if they pull more than one additional car. If we offer a powered and an unpowered version separately, you can bet that someone will try to pull 10 washboards with one powered model and he will totally destroy it. And by "someone" I mean "almost everyone." That's a warranty headache we should do our best to avoid....

-Jason
Ah, the warranty thing. Of course you are right about that. Put me down for 4 powered cars then!
Ted
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

February 5th, 2018, 7:19 pm #23

Mr. Jason(rapidotrains). Thanks for the explanation on the stresses to the motor of the powered car with more than one unpowered car. That still makes the four-car set with two powered and two unpowered 4400 Washboard coaches a good thing for me. Instead of adding the drag of an Island Model Works (IMW) 4400 Washboard coach to the consist, if offered separately, I would add another powered Rapido 4400 Washboard coach to make my five-car consists of 4400 Washboard coaches. I would still want five(5) sets of Rapido four-car 4400 Washboards coaches, plus five(5) more powered Rapido 4400 Washboard coaches to make five five-car consists of Rapido 4400 Washboard and still have my two five-car consists of IMW 4400 Washboard coaches. If the time before the release is far enough out, I would probably bump that up to eight(8) each of the four-car sets and powered cars. Well, that's my additional two-cents(US) on what I will pre-order of 4400 Washboard coaches.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

February 6th, 2018, 2:47 pm #24

Mr. J.W. Swanberg said on page 408 of New Haven Power 1938-1968 (1988) that "[t]o avoid both New York City and Connecticut sales taxes, the new cars were delivered and broken in at New Rochelle, N.Y." On another thread the question was asked about locomotive deliveries in the upper areas of New Haven territory to avoid high sales taxes, and now we know the 4400/4670/5110 Washboards were received in a southern terminus for that reason. That probably wouldn't be the case for the Rapido 4400 Washboards (if produced) as New York City's rate is 8.875%, New Rochelle is 8.375%, and Connecticut's is 6.35%. Just updating the taxes at various points regarding the original 4400 Washboards and any possible Rapido Trains 4400 Washboards.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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DBrion
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Joined: June 21st, 2006, 1:52 am

February 7th, 2018, 9:51 am #25

To be prototypically correct, all the Washboards were powered, there were no trailers.  As far as running two-car trains, I recall always seeing them in trains at least 3 to 4 cars long, usually 6.  The only two car train I saw was on the New Canaan branch, but there might have been a few exceptions.  With regards to modelling them, I recognize cost is a factor regarding powered vs. non-powered, but has it been clearly established what Rapido's price differential would be?
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Joined: August 4th, 2017, 5:23 pm

February 11th, 2018, 5:59 am #26

The Custom Brass Washboards were/are terrible! The trucks have no brake shoes, no brake cylinders and no 3rd rail shoes! I mounted my own brake cylinders to my cars.
The so-called "drive" is awful! They came in different 3 car sets with only one truck powered in one car to pull itself and the two trailers. I have several of them; they can't even go down-hill I re-powered two cars with the NWSL Stanton Drives. The cars weren't even painted correctly!
Modelers have to realize while Jason is a "buff" he is also a business man. I've heard modelers complain about paying $150.00 for a non-DCC Athearn engine. I totally understand where Jason is coming from.
Some say "I will order X-amount of Washboards" and then don't come thru. Would I like to see Rapido Washboards? ABSOLUTELY! Once again, we have to realize the business/cost factor approach from Jason's side.
Last edited by Richard Abramson on February 11th, 2018, 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rivermanvt
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Joined: June 15th, 2014, 10:26 am

February 11th, 2018, 7:01 am #27

rsullivan wrote: I wasn't able to answer the survey from this device. I would love for Rapido to work their magic on them. The "washboard" are available from Island Models Works at www.islandmodelworks.com. I couldn't access the actual page for them, but they are available in both the combine and coach versions. The coach kit could be used for the club cars. Correct decals are also available. It includes the sideframes. It can be powered by a Kato or Walthers RDC (which no longer have the same appeal since Rapido has released their versions) or with Northwest Shortlines' underfloor power trucks. Someone posted his joy in the underfloor power trucks on another thread somewhere on this Forum. While the walls are thick, I'm happy with the details, and have ten coaches to put in commuter service.
I agree with more electrics!
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr. Member #3967
Regrettably the Island Models site states that they are not accepting more orders at this time. I found this by viewing what was available for the New Haven 
and then opening the "finished models" tab.

Cordially, Don Valentine
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

February 11th, 2018, 10:13 am #28

Mr. Abramson. You stated, "Some say "I will order X-amount of Washboards" and then don't come thru." I cannot speak for others. However, what I state publically is a verbal contract as far as I'm concerned. When Rapido announces a project that I'm interested in, I start putting money aside each month for it. When on another thread like this one concerning the possible production of the EP-5's, I said I would buy three if under $500. I have five on order. When the NHRHTA announced with Rapido the 8600 Series Stainless Steel (SS) Streamline Passenger Cars, and the Parlor/Parlor-Lounge Cars I pre-ordered what I had saved for and then some. You have my permission to check with Mr. Clinton concerning my numbers if his records go back that far. So, unless I start my dirt nap prior to the release of the Diner/Grill SS Food Service Cars and the 4400 Washboards, my publically stated pre-order predictions on this Forum are a contract between Rapido Trains Inc. and myself. 
    You added, "Would I like to see Rapido Washboards? ABSOLUTELY! Once again, we have to realize the business/cost factor approach from Jason's side." I look at it from all the business/cost factors I can think of to look at as realistacally I can think concerning planning, advertising, and production/shipment of each model spoken about on various threads on the Forum. When Mr. Jason(rapidotrains) mentioned the four-car sets as a possibility, I calculated a possible manufacturers suggested retail (MSR) price range of between $750 and $900 per four-car set and $325 to $450 per powered car (inflation factored in, but not currency fluctuations). When the NHRHTA has partnered with Rapido, the NHRHTA sales price has been less than the MSR, and my local hobby shop gives a 15% price lower than the MSR due to his distributors prices since he can't submit the pre-orders directly with Rapido due to current rules. He can only order direct on non-pre-order items directly from Rapido through his business account with them. Otherwise it would be a 20% price lower than the MSR. That's my look from Mr. Jason's side and mine.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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