Dick Otto
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Joined: September 8th, 2004, 6:14 am

November 29th, 2007, 2:01 pm #11

Re: Russell's plea for eastward views--1368 in "The Cut"
1380 in "The Cut"
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AZHONutCase
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Joined: November 2nd, 2004, 3:22 am

November 29th, 2007, 3:02 pm #12

Thanks Dick.
Those fill in a big blank as to how the harbor side of the cut looked like. There are several of us who are concurrently planning to feature the New Haven Union Station area so I am sure this will benefit all of them.
Depending on space available, I may include as far as the beginning of the Trolley Viaduct before the tracks will go on to the upper level Shore Line via Helix and to the Cedar Hill hidden staging. I am hoping that I could go as far as Mill River Junction, but that is a lot of cut to model with no photo documentation, not to mention a LOT of bridges.
As far as I can tell the Shoreline was on the right most two tracks on an increasing grade separated from the trench that contained the "subway" to Cedar Hill and the leftmost two tracks were the Canal line and Hartford/Springfield line. It appears that they also would have been the West Bound departure tracks.
Looking at the schematic it appears that track 2 might have been used for freights through the station area to the "subway" but I seem to recall that the Freights from Maybrook and Oak Point might have used track 10??? to skirt the station on the far right.
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Noel Weaver
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Joined: February 18th, 2003, 2:23 am

November 30th, 2007, 5:10 am #13

Under normal operation, tracks one and two through the
station were used for light engine moves to and from the
shop and relay moves for electric and diesels enroute to
and from motor storage and trains in the station. They
were also normally used for all freight trains to and from
Cedar Hill and to points west. Once in a while track nine
in the station would be used for a westbound Maybrook job
that would then continue west on three all the way to Devon
but this was not done on a regular basis. I do not recall
track ten being used for freight trains on any kind of a
regular basis. By using track two through the station, a
freight train could stay on track two all the way right up
to Cedar Hill and not interfere with a Boston train that
would come into New Haven on track four, use one of the
eastbound tracks in the station to do their work and change
power and continue east without any interference from the
passing freight train as long as the power was already out
from motor storage. Of course a Springfield train would
eventually have to get crossed over either ahead or behind
the freight train in order to operate up track two on the
Springfield Line.
New Haven Terminal in the 1950's was intended and designed
to handle a lot of traffic efficiently and it did just
that very well.
Noel Weaver
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AZHONutCase
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Joined: November 2nd, 2004, 3:22 am

November 30th, 2007, 3:58 pm #14

Great information Noel.
Further, regarding pasenger traffic off the Shore Line, what routing would they take from Mill River Junction into the station, and what station tracks would they normally be assigned to?
I notice two single slip switches on tracks 4 and 2 on the west end. Were these primarily to facilate movements from the coach yard?
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Ed O Rourke
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Joined: June 27th, 2003, 7:41 pm

November 30th, 2007, 10:17 pm #15

I love this forum.. This is just what I was looking for. Now to decide what to use to build it.
Ed
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Noel Weaver
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Joined: February 18th, 2003, 2:23 am

November 30th, 2007, 10:54 pm #16

A westbound Shore Line passenger train would generally come
to Mill River on track one, continue on one or cross to
three and use track seven in the station. All four tracks
between Mill River and Fair Street had signals for moves in
both directions. A freight train eastbound for Cedar Hill
that was unfortunate enough to conflict with a westbound
passenger train at Mill River would likely be held there.
Often an eastbound freight train would not get a signal at
Cedar Street (just west of the station area) until it was
reasonably sure that the train would get a decent shot right up to the end of block sign in the subway at Cedar
Hill. A westbound freight train out of Cedar Hill would
mostly have the possibility of a westbound passenger train
off the Shore Line to contend with at Mill River or an
eastbound/northbound Springfield Line train to cross over
at Mill River. Once this obstacle was taken care of,
usually they would keep them moving through the station on
track one and also track one on the New York Division.
The people in the tower were pretty darn good at keeping
these trains moving and out of each other's way.
Noel Weaver
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seanduine
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Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:40 pm

November 30th, 2007, 11:28 pm #17

All ten tracks in the station could be used for Passenger or freights. Nine could be used for westbound freights around the clock and ten was used sparingly usually during the daylight hours. From about five pm on, tracks 5-3-4-6-8-10 in the station would be clogged with incoming locals plus the through passenger trains and the yard crews coming out to the station to take the locals back to a yard track.
Airline Jct. to Mill River Jct had three tracks that could be used in both directions on all three tracks.
Mill River to Fair St. had four tracks that could be used in all directions.
Chapel St. to Fair St. had seven tracks. Five of them could be used to get into the station. The other two were Tk 10 for the Mail house and Tk. 8 for Water St.
yard.
Track 9 was used for Hartford trains as it was a straight move into the station from track 3 in the east cut.
Track 7 was used for Shoreline trains, their move was generally onto track two at Mill River and run through Fair St. into the station staying on the left side of a westbound out of Hartford.
Shorelines could run track 2-1-3 from Mill River to Fair St. Westbound Shoreliners could not run track four
to Fair St. from Millriver as there was no way for them to be crossed over to Station track 7 from track four at Fair St.
Freights running through the station on track two, two became track four at Fair St. It would be a straight move to the subway. If a Hartford train was delayed for any reason and a freight was waiting or on the move at Cedar St. the freight was moved up track ten and out track 6 or track four. The Hartford train on track 8 or any other track could move out track track two to track one at Fair St. and continue to Millriver on track one. Both trains could be on the move at the same time with this move.
It was a common move at Mill River to cross a westbound Shoreliner from track two over to track 1 or track 3, with the co-operation of Fair St. and have them
start a freight out of the station up two for the subway and take the Eastbound Shoreliner out track 4 for the shoreline. There was a lot of co-operation between the towers at that time to keep the trains moving. A good deal of the time the moves were made without consulting the train dispatcher. When we OS'd
we gave him the track movements then.
Freights at times were moved up track 1 or 2 at Fair St. to Millriver and to Airline who would put the freight in on the Old Main or One in the hole. I believe this is the Route that ND2 usually took because he used to go onto the thoroughfare to the WBH receiving yard.
There were slip switches that allowed the passenger yard switcher to take cars from the Passenger yard through the switches up to track 5 in the station and out, what was called the long crossover between track 5 and track 7. The switcher could then go out into the relay track and shove down track 7 or track 9. Otherwise the switcher would have to go through the station out to Chapel St. and shove back to the station. A great shortcut through the station.
As Noel stated, the station and environs were designed for a busy rail terminal. I may have skipped something as it has been a long time away. Bob L.
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AZHONutCase
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Joined: November 2nd, 2004, 3:22 am

December 1st, 2007, 4:38 pm #18

Your memory is fantastic.
This is fabulous information as I will be running freights through the station and into CH staging and back often, as well as passenger traffic NY to Boston and return.
Now I don't have to invent my own cockamamie plan.
"Old Main or One in the hole"
Translate please.
I don't see how the passenger switcher got to track 7 using the two single slip switches.
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seanduine
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Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:40 pm

December 1st, 2007, 5:59 pm #19

Here is a link to a picture of the new, at the time west end of SS75.
Just over the speakerphone, out of the passenger yard, shows the two slip switches enabling the switcher to go on track 4 or traverse up the crossover to track 2 or follow the route up to track 1 to the crossover onto track 5 up through track 5 to the crossover to track 7.
photos.nerail.org/showpic...Innealtoir
Bob L.
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seanduine
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Joined: June 25th, 2006, 9:40 pm

December 1st, 2007, 6:18 pm #20

The old main and one in the hole were entrance or exit tracks into the Cedar Hill complex from Airline Jct.
They had overhead wires. The subway tracks tied into the Old Main deep into the yard.
The link enclosed will show the Subway track that is to the extreme right, then the Old Main, One in the hole and two in the hole to the coal ramp had no wires. They were the ready tracks for the steamers and diesels that came after.
The picture shows a string of engines coming off track one to go into the engine house service tracks under the coal tower.
Airline Jct was located just about where the second engine in the string is located, on the west bank of course. Bob L.
memory.loc.gov/pnp/habsha...4112pv.jpg
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