Rapido EP-5 "Jet"

An open forum to discuss all aspects of the New Haven Railroad.
BX10
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Joined: 15 Jan 2010, 05:40

04 Oct 2017, 14:39 #21

Well how about Long Island Railroad commuter cars.

  Bill
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Statkowski
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Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 09:39

04 Oct 2017, 15:28 #22

Richard Abramson wrote: Train is also operating left-handed on trk-1; location is JO also known as Woodlawn. What is interesting too is the train is coming off the Harlem. Never knew Jets ran on the Harlem.
Brother Rick, if you look closely you'll see the last car is coming through the crossover, which means it came off the former New Haven line.

And technically Jets did run on the Harlem, from Woodlawn to Grand Central Terminal.
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Richard Abramson
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Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 21:23

04 Oct 2017, 16:08 #23

Brother Henry:
I am aware the NH operated over 12 miles of the Harlem. What I should have said was on the Harlem north of Woodlawn on the former NYC.
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frn1963
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Joined: 29 Aug 2003, 20:15

04 Oct 2017, 16:33 #24

Thanks Rick - I think it's possible they may be coming off the New Haven - if you zoom in on the last car, it appears to be crossing over from 3, which it could have accessed on the track currently known as NH1. FWIW.


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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

04 Oct 2017, 16:41 #25

Mr. Abramson. Since you performed the change over from the NYC's third rail to the NH's catenary at Woodlawn, when did you raise the third rail shoes? The one in the picture still has them in the lower position, and as I understand the explanation, the EP-5 is heading east towards New Rochelle on the New Haven main line. Was there a specific point that the third rail shoes had to be raised? I would never have even observed them and their position if it wasn't for the earlier banter concerning modeling in the lower or raised position. I actually looked for the third rail shoes in the picture because of that. I really don't care for the all black PC scheme on the EP-5's or the other locomotives. Maybe if they were polished up like the I-5's. Speaking of color, why isn't the third rail beam red? Was that something unique to the FL-9's? Thanks.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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frn1963
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Joined: 29 Aug 2003, 20:15

04 Oct 2017, 17:00 #26

Mr Sullivan - the train is inbound/eastbound/southbound approaching Woodlawn and GCT, running reverse on the Central's Harlem 1. The New Haven Line can be seen in the upper right of the photo behind the train, if only vaguely.

The confusion arises from the East is Even convention; because the Central's "eastbound" tracks headed compass south towards the Central's eastern terminus at GCT, and the New Haven's "eastbound" tracks, starting at Woodlawn, head compass north away from GCT heading for the New Haven's eastern terminus at South Station (which was another eastern terminus for the Central's B&A, but not via New Haven, so never mind ... )

You would be correct that the train were eastbound (reverse running on 1) if this train were on New Haven tracks, but it has just left them.

More or less confused?


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Richard Abramson
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Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 21:23

04 Oct 2017, 17:42 #27

Richard:
I was never in engine service on the NH or PC.
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Statkowski
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Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 09:39

04 Oct 2017, 18:11 #28

frn1963 wrote: You would be correct that the train were eastbound (reverse running on 1) if this train were on New Haven tracks, but it has just left them.  

More or less confused?
The train in the picture was running westward while on the New Haven (Boston to New York is westward), but once it left the New Haven and entered New York Central tracks it suddenly was running eastward (Chicago to New York is eastward).  When operating on the New York Central, all New Haven train numbers were prefixed with the letter "Y" in the employees timetable (which dates back to when all Hudson, Harlem and New Haven trains had either an "X", "Y" or "Z" prefix, and the Central eventually dropped the "X" and "Z" prefixes but kept the "Y" prefix).

As to when the shoes were raised on trains departing Grand Central Terminal, that was at the point where the third rail ended, but not before.  For trains going into Grand Central Terminal, shoes were lowered once past Mount Vernon Station.  In all cases, train personnel (head end crew, trainmen, conductors) were all to check that shoes were up or down as appropriate before reaching the point where they had to be up or down as appropriate.
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

05 Oct 2017, 04:49 #29

Thank you Mr. Frn1963 and Mr. Statkowski for clarifying the direction of travel, track ownership, and the changing in discriptive direction based on property verses actual direction of travel. Sorry, but now I have another question. Mr. DBrion said there was a device to knock any unraised third rail shoes from the locomotives at Wilton, Connecticut and he had seen third rail shoes on the ground there. Since Wilton station is 48.5 miles from GCT and Woodlawn station is 11.8 miles from GCT, that leaves 36.7 miles (roughly) for the train crew to ensure the third rail shoes are raised. If I understand the speeds correctly will range between 60 mph and 80 mph in that stretch, that should allow 27 to 36 minutes to verify the third rail shoes are raised prior to the 'failsafe' device at Wilton. Since the train crew is also checking that the third rail shoes are raised, how did they notify the engineer or fireman without a radio? Did someone walk through the cars and cross over onto the locomotive to tell the locomotive crew? Since the conductor is ultimately responsible for the entire train, who has the rsponsiblity for making sure the third rail shoes were raised when it came time for discipline? The engineer, conductor, or both? Mr. Statkowski once said in another thread that infractions could result in going to the main headquarters building in New Haven to receive what I equate to an 'Article 15 / Captain's Mast' adminsitrative corrective action. (Mr. Derek, those are names used for the US military administrative tools from the Uniform Code of Military Justice 2012 - Revised, sub-chapter Article 15, Commanding Officer's Non-Judicial Punishment. Those of us south of the 49th parallel who wore the uniform either by invitation or own volition know of the terms.) Would not raising the third rail shoes in time to prevent their being knocked off the locomotive be serious enough to require such a trip?
Sorry Mr. Abramson for placing you on the NH or PC. I thought you had started in the northeast, then went to Southern Railroad, and then to Conrail. I try to remember each railroader's experience and location but haven't written them down. I didn't ask Mr. Statkowski because he was involved in the SS towers and operating freights from Bay Ridge and Oak Point and to the east. So, while he has all kinds of paperwork and experience in operating the trains, and paperwork on the passenger trains into/out of GCT, I didn't think he actually operated one and I thought you had. Sorry for putting you on the spot. I think I'll go back through the Forum and set up a notebook on each railroader to keep me straight. Thank you everyone.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr. member #3967
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Statkowski
Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 09:39

05 Oct 2017, 13:56 #30

Richard, if you happen to have a copy of a New Haven Railroad Time Table (any year), your attention is invited to Rule 1612, which is a little bit on the lengthy side (ten paragraphs taking up an entire column of the two-column page).  This rule covers who, where, when concerning putting up or putting down the third rail shoes.

Concerning a rake-off block at Wilton, this could well be a post-New Haven installation.  With Metro North equipment and operations, and high-level platforms everywhere, the need to ensure shoes were up may have changed.

Concerning communicating with the train's head end, back before the days of radio, the conductor communicated via a signal cord located in the vestibule.  A yank on the cord would activate a whistle in the engine's cab.  In return, the engineer would communicate with the conductor via the train's whistle.  Communicating signals are covered by Rule 16 in the Book of Rules, and engine whistle signals by Rule 14.  You'll note that passenger equipment of that time had an air hose, a steam line and a signal hose.  The signal hose allowed the rear end to communicate with the front end pneumatically.

As for anyone getting raked over the coals concerning shoes up or shoes down, one must remember that these were pneumo-mechanical devices, prone to occasional failure.  Now, while totally ignoring the requirement to raise or lower the shoes as appropriate might warrant further action, a simple malfunction was usually dealt with in accordance with Rule 1612.

On a more personal note, although I spent a few years with the New Haven (and Penn Central) as an S.S. Operator, no train service at all, most of my transportation career was with the U.S. Army, starting off with traffic management and ending up as a Logistician on General Staff.  My schooling and experience involved me with rail, truck, aircraft and oceangoing transport.  It was incumbent of me to become familiar (not an expert) with anything and everything involved with the movement of people and things from Point A to Point B.  Pick up and load an M-113 armored personnel carrier onto a flatcar using two 5-ton wreckers?  Been there, done that, but I wouldn't recommend it.  Train troops how to load tracked and wheeled engineering equipment onto flatcars, including teaching them how to properly tie them down according to A.A.R. rules?  Been there, done that.  Get shot at?  Yeah, that too.  Been out on the open ocean on a 100-foot Army tugboat and have been underground in the Nevada desert with a unit supporting the DOD Underground Nuclear Weapons Effects Testing Program (and when shipping classified radioactive material (Radioactive Yellow III), the first three pages of the shipping documents, which I had to create, were warnings - the fourth page was the actual description of what was being shipped).
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