Point and Beach Sleeper Question

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Point and Beach Sleeper Question

corlissbs
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Joined: May 26th, 2003, 4:53 am

February 12th, 2018, 7:56 pm #1

Did all of the Point and Beach sleepers have their skirting removed?  I have acquired kits for three Point and one Beach cars and they have the skirting.  I need to know whether to remove it for the early 60's.

Brad Smith
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

February 12th, 2018, 11:12 pm #2

Mr. Corlissbs. Allyns Point #500 still had skirts on in a pictured dated June 23, 1968 on page 25 of Mr. David R. Sweetland's and Mr. Robert A. Liljestrand's Passenger Cars of the New Haven Railroad (no date). It still had the black NH on red plates. The Cornfield Point #504 was photographed the same day and place, and the skirts are removed. On page 26, both the Crescent Beach #528, and the Rocky Neck Beach #535 had their skirts missing on August 29, 1970 and September 7, 1970 respectively. The Wilson Point #526 and Lookout Point #510 (in Penn Central livery and numbered 4230) are on pages 112 and 113 respectively in Mr. Geoffrey H. Doughty's The New Haven Railroad's Streamline Passenger Fleet (2000) with their skirts on. Wilson Point was photographed on October 12, 1960, and Lookout Point in 1969. Rocky Neck Beach #535 was skirtless on page 114 when photographed in July 1968. On page 67 of his The New Haven Railroad in the Streamline Era (1998), Mishaum Point #513 is skirtless on September 28, 1969. The Crescent Beach #528 is also skirtless on June 6, 1969 on page 70. Page 91 shows Gull Point #507 with the skirts intact in July 1960. So, if you don't want to remove the skirting on the Point Series cars, I would model Allsyn Point #504, Lookout Point #510, Gull Point #507, and Wilson Point #526 since the first two wore skirts in 1969 and 1970 respectively, and the latter two in 1960 were skirtless by 1967. Based on the pictures I found, you might have to remove the skirts on the Beach Series car if you are modeling post-1960. Hope this helps out some.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
Last edited by rsullivan on February 13th, 2018, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

February 13th, 2018, 12:32 am #3

Mr. Corlissbs. A web search for Point Series and Beach Series sleeper car images showed the following in photos. Beaver Tail Point #501 was skirtless on August 24, 1969. Black Point #502 was skirtless in an undated photo. India Point #508 was skirtless in an undated photo. Lords Point #511 had skirts in an undated photo. Napatree Point #516 was skirtless in an undated photo. Rocky Point #521 was skirtless in an undate photo. Stratford Point #525 was skirtless in an undated photo taken of the Danbury Railroad Museum equipment. Bailey's Beach was skirtless in an undated photo. Grove Beach #529 was skirtless in an October 2009 photo. In Mr. Peter K. Shepherd's "The "Point" Pullmans, The New Haven's Luxury Flagships" in Shoreliner, vol.39, iss. 1, The Wilson Point #526 has intact skirts on October 12, 1960 on page 10. Black Point #502 was skirtless on July 1, 1967 on page 14. City Point #503 had skirts on August 29, 1970 on page 15. Goshen Point #506, Gull Point #507, and India Point #508 were all skirtless in the three pictures on page 16. Long Point #509 had skirts on July 12, 1958, but was skirtless on March 24, 1968 on page 17. Lookout Point #509 had skirts on June 23, 1968 on page 18. Both Mishaum Point #513 and Monomoy Point #514 were skirtless on September 28, 1969 and May 24, 1969 respectively on page 19. Napatree Point #516 had skirts in an undated picture, but was skirtless on January 20, 1968 on page 22. Both Pond Point #518 and Quonset Point #519 are skirtless in their 1967 pictures on page 23. Shippan Point #524 was skirtless in August 1966 as was Stratford Point #525 on June 7, 1969 on page 25. Wilson Point #526 was skirtless on May 27, 1967 on page 26. Manomet Point #512 had skirts while wearing the black "NH" on red plate (no date), but skirtless when returned to the red "NH" on black plates (no dated) on page 27. Allyns Point #500 has skirts and Shippan Point #524 is skirtless on June 28, 1968 on page 29. On pages 30 and 31 pictures of Point Series cars in the same train collision show the following skirtless cars: Long Point #509, Manomet Point #512, Goshen Point #506, Sandy Point #523, and Mishaum Point #513. Mr. Shepherd only said, "As the fifties wore on, maintenance expediency dictated the removal of the fluted skirts between the trucks, with the underbody equipment painted black." So, I would go with the picture evidence for which cars can keep their skirts on.
    So, I would add City Point #503 and possibly Black Point #502 and Lords Point #511 to the list of cars that still had skirts post-1960, and Manomet Point #512 if you model it with the black "NH" on the red plate. Again, I hope this helps some.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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RanchoBob
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Joined: October 17th, 2016, 8:22 am

February 13th, 2018, 10:31 am #4

All the photos I have of POINT and BEACH cars taken by Bill Howes in New Haven in 1960 have skirts.    
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corlissbs
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Joined: May 26th, 2003, 4:53 am

February 13th, 2018, 1:54 pm #5

Thank you.  I have factory prepainted models of India Point, Allyns Point, Goshen Point. Lords Point and the Beach class sleeper has 9 different New Haven car names on decals, and B&M and BAR names.  I kind of like the skirts on, as my 8600's will be skirtless.

Brad Smith
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RanchoBob
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Joined: October 17th, 2016, 8:22 am

February 13th, 2018, 3:06 pm #6

corlissbs wrote: Thank you.  I have factory prepainted models of India Point, Allyns Point, Goshen Point. Lords Point and the Beach class sleeper has 9 different New Haven car names on decals, and B&M and BAR names.  I kind of like the skirts on, as my 8600's will be skirtless.

Brad Smith
Brad...just out of curiosity, who made those 14-4's?
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corlissbs
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Joined: May 26th, 2003, 4:53 am

February 13th, 2018, 5:01 pm #7

They are N-scale cars made by Eastern Seaboard Models, but now discontinued.  They came as car sides and complete kits.  And in both color schemes.  The Point cars are plastic and the State and Beach cars are etched metal.  Very nice quality.

http://www.esmc.com/3110/Item3121.html     for the Point cars

http://www.esmc.com/3110/Item3191.html      for the Beach series.  The State pics are no longer on their web site. 

Brad Smith
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corlissbs
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Joined: May 26th, 2003, 4:53 am

February 13th, 2018, 5:04 pm #8

Here is the State car model:

http://www.esmc.com/3100/Item3103.html

Brad Smith
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RanchoBob
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Joined: October 17th, 2016, 8:22 am

February 13th, 2018, 10:04 pm #9

corlissbs wrote: Here is the State car model:

http://www.esmc.com/3100/Item3103.html

Brad Smith
Oh, ok.  N Scale.   There you go.   I know the guys who own Eastern Seaboard Models....  nice guys, good quality.   Thanks
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NH in VA
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Joined: July 12th, 2011, 10:10 pm

February 14th, 2018, 9:07 am #10

I assume most on this site are aware that at least one, possibly two, companies make sides for pretty much all the NH SS cars.  Union Station Products (USP) makes HO scale plastic sides from flat plastic stock with the window openings cut out and clear window strips included.  The fluting is separate, applied to the flat plastic side.  When combined with a Walthers PS sleeper core, it makes a good substitute for a purpose-built exact car a la Rapido.  I have been happy with the results.  USP also sells the fluting separately.  I have applied it to the Society's plated SS car sides and applied the side to another Walthers PS sleeper core with equally good results.  With the plastic fluting added to the flat plated side, the car has a more three dimensional look. Thin (.005 plastic) sign boards and name boards make the car look just about right.  I can't vouch for the underbody details on the Walthers car vis a vis the New Haven cars, but with the skirting on it is pretty much a moot point.
NKP Car Company produces a more limited group of metal, plated NH sides which include a few of the sleepers.  I cannot tell if they are still in business from their website.
The only"problem" I have yet to solve with the sides mentioned here for either manufacturer is what color to paint the stainless steel portions of the side to match the Rapido SS cars.  I like the Alclad II paints, but haven't come up with a color match that nails the color.  I had talked to Rapido about making the paint for their paint line, but haven't seen anything to indicate they will.  They are a bit busy right now, so maybe it's worth of few of us asking.  I'm sure I'm not the only person who'd like to see the matching color available for pre-Rapido cars we have on hand.
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