Passenger Car Consists

John Sheridan
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Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:07 pm

March 5th, 2018, 10:47 am #1

Gang,

I am looking for Passenger car consists from the years 1945 - 1968. In particular I am look for the April / September timetables that give the cars types/name/number assigned to it. 

If I can accumulate the data, I will put it all into 1 spreadsheet so we can all use it. 

Anyone care to assist me in such a project ?
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Statkowski
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Joined: March 5th, 2003, 4:39 am

March 5th, 2018, 12:42 pm #2

More than willing to assist (being retired does have its perks).

Problem 1 will be coming up with a standardized spreadsheet format.  A separate column will be needed for each day of the week since car counts changed depending on the day for certain trains.  Monday through Thursday may have been somewhat static, but Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays saw variances.

Problem 2, the biggie, is "types/name/number".  Take, for example, Train 83 (Springfield to Grand Central Terminal) from the October 28, 1963 consist book.  In its mix of SL coaches, a De Luxe smoker and SS coaches, it also has Deadhead sleepers tacked onto its rear at New Haven.  4 such cars on Sundays thru Thursdays, 2 on Friday and 1 on Saturday.  They are not further identified.  Nor are they listed in the sleeper individual assignments.  Car type is easy, but car number/name could be problematic.  Some trains, such as The Federal, essentially ran with two sets.

Although I prefer working with Open Office, I do have the parent Windows version.
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John Sheridan
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Joined: February 23rd, 2009, 3:07 pm

March 6th, 2018, 8:02 am #3

Statkowski wrote: More than willing to assist (being retired does have its perks).

Problem 1 will be coming up with a standardized spreadsheet format.  A separate column will be needed for each day of the week since car counts changed depending on the day for certain trains.  Monday through Thursday may have been somewhat static, but Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays saw variances.

Problem 2, the biggie, is "types/name/number".  Take, for example, Train 83 (Springfield to Grand Central Terminal) from the October 28, 1963 consist book.  In its mix of SL coaches, a De Luxe smoker and SS coaches, it also has Deadhead sleepers tacked onto its rear at New Haven.  4 such cars on Sundays thru Thursdays, 2 on Friday and 1 on Saturday.  They are not further identified.  Nor are they listed in the sleeper individual assignments.  Car type is easy, but car number/name could be problematic.  Some trains, such as The Federal, essentially ran with two sets.

Although I prefer working with Open Office, I do have the parent Windows version.
I have to take a peek at the raw data to see how to properly format it. 
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Statkowski
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Joined: March 5th, 2003, 4:39 am

March 6th, 2018, 9:06 am #4

Time Table No. 178
Sunday, September 27, 1953
Train 83 - Daily - Day White Mountain Express Mo. Tu. We. Th. Fr. Sa. Su.
Baggage Springfield GCT 1 1 1 1 1 1 -
Baggage-Lounge 14Ch-11L-DR-2Rm   "   " - - - - - - 1
Parlor-Lounge 20Ch-11L-Br-Bf White River Jct.   " 1 1 1 1 1 1 - Note 1
Coach Streamlined, reclining seats   "   " 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Coach Streamlined    "   " 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Coach Streamlined Springfield   " 1 1 1 1 1 1 2
Smoker De Luxe   "   " 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Coach Streamlined   "   " 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Smoker De Luxe   "   " - - - - 1 - 1
Coach Streamlined New Haven   " - - - - - - 2
Note 1 - Operates from Berlin, N.H., Mondays, Sept. 28 to Oct. 12, inclusive
Time Table No. 17
Monday, October 28, 1963
Train 83 - Daily Mo. Tu. We. Th. Fr. Sa. Su.
Baggage Springfield GCT 1 1 1 1 1 - -
Parlor 14Ch-11L-DR-2Rm   "   " - - - - - 1 1 Note 1
Coach Streamlined   "   " 2 2 2 2 - 1 1
Smoker De Luxe   "   " 1 1 1 1 - - -
Coach Stainless Steel   "   " - - - - 3 - -
Coach Stainless Steel New Haven   " 2 2 2 2 - - 1
Sleeper Deadhead   "   " 4 4 4 4 2 1 4
Note 1 - Operates Nov. 28, Dec. 25 and Jan. 1
Time Table No. 20
Sunday, April 25, 1965
Train 83 - Daily Mo. Tu. We. Th. Fr. Sa. Su.
Baggage Springfield GCT 1 1 1 1 1 - -
Coach Streamlined   "   " 1 1 1 1 - 3 2
Smoker De Luxe   "   " 1 1 1 1 1 - -
Coach Stainless Steel   "   " 1 1 1 1 1 - 4
Coach Stainless Steel New Haven   " 1 1 1 1 3 - 1
Sleeper Deadhead   "   " 2 2 2 2 1 1 2
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

March 6th, 2018, 9:20 am #5

     Mr. Sheridan. I have three consist Passenger Train Consists in two books that are copyrighted by BHI Publications. One book is Passenger Train Consists for 1952 and confroms with Time Table No. 176, September 28, 1952. The second book is Passenger Train Consists for 1955 and 1962. Passenger Train Consists 1955 confroms with Time Table No. 183, October 30, 1955, and Passenger Train Consists 1962 confroms with Time Table No. 15, October 28, 1962.
     Just looking at the 25 SS Lightweight 36C Parlor Cars listing in each of the Consists, I see that the train assignment for each 36C parlor car changed in each Passenger Train Consists listing. A quick glace at the rest of the car types shows the same thing. The actual train listing by train number that follows breaksdown the car placement and number of cars by day of the week.  In Passenger Train Consists for 1955 and 1962,  Passenger Train Consists 1955, examples are Train 22 - Daily - Yankee Clipper, GCT-Bos., shows two 36C parlors each day with the cars assigned being 306 Cranston and 317 Danbury, and Train 23 - Daily - Yankee Clipper, Bos.-GCT, shows two 36C parlors each day with the cars assigned being 301 Bridgeport and 303 Brockton.
     Since these books are both copyrighted and have 60 and 118 pages respectively, I feel the best method to give you the information would be to share them with you. Send me a private message (PM) with your street address, and I'll mail them for you to use for the length of time it takes to decide the spreadsheet format and enter the data.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

March 6th, 2018, 9:42 am #6

Mr. Sheridan. I received your address and will get them in the mail tomorrow. Maybe others who read this might help in the same way.
Richard (short form) #3967
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Statkowski
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Joined: March 5th, 2003, 4:39 am

March 6th, 2018, 11:33 am #7

Throwing a lug wrench into the gears, standard isn't exactly standard from one book to another. 

I just ran Train 83 from the 9/52, 9/53, 10/57, 10/63 and 4/65 books, and that's just one train out of many.

* The 14-chair, 11-lounge, drawing room, 2 roomette cars are usually shown as "Baggage-Lounge" cars, but one listing showed it as a "Parlor" car.
* The De Luxe Smoker was listed as a De Luxe Coach in one listing.
* The sequence in the arrangements of the 14-chair, 11-lounge, drawing room, 2 roomette cars could be shown as "14C-11L-DR-2Rm" or "DR-2Rm-14C-11L".  Same difference.

Yes, one could always publish it as listed in the book, or one could correct the variances so that a specific car type is always shown one particular way.

As one progresses, slowly, one finds oneself constantly adjusting the column width.
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TomCurtin
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Joined: July 13th, 2017, 10:13 am

March 8th, 2018, 8:21 am #8

rsullivan wrote:      Since these books are both copyrighted and have 60 and 118 pages respectively, I feel the best method to give you the information would be to share them with you. Send me a private message (PM) with your street address, and I'll mail them for you to use for the length of time it takes to decide the spreadsheet format and enter the data.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
Hey Richard, your PTC books are copyrighted?  I don't get this Mine aren't.
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rsullivan
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Joined: December 14th, 2016, 3:36 pm

March 8th, 2018, 8:51 am #9

     Mr. Curtin. I bought mine from BHI Publications. BHI made digitlized restored, edited, and cleaned images of the New Haven RR's Passenger Train Consist (PTC). The images were then printed on 8.5"x11" thick stock paper. BHI bound them with spiral sline bindings for publication. They copyrighted their final product, and state on the bottom of each page "All Rights Reserved, Duplication Prohibited." So, the pages themselves can't be copied, or the same formated image or presentation must be properly quoted and referenced. Yet it is actually the original New Haven RR's printing of the PTC folders just restored. I don't know all the aspects of copyrighting, but I do know from collegate work that you can take the information out of the same format and present it in your work as long as the source is cited in footnotes or endnotes, and in the bibliography or source list. The PTCs you have don't mention any copyright by the New Haven RR so it doesn't limit the formated presentation, but should still be listed in the bibliography or source list. 
    I hope this explains why mine are copyrighted and yours aren't.
Richard (short form) #3967 
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Statkowski
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Joined: March 5th, 2003, 4:39 am

March 8th, 2018, 10:40 am #10

Can't comment on the BHI publications since I don't have them.  I don't know what they edited or possibly reformatted.

I do have the following, some in better condition than others:
Makeup of Through Trains, June 6, 1920, no time table cross-reference
Normal Through Train Consists, April 27, 1941, no time table cross-reference
Passenger Train Consists, April 29, 1951, Time Table No. 173
Passenger Train Consists, September 30, 1951, Time Table No. 174
Passenger Train Consists, September 28, 1952, Time Table No. 176
Passenger Train Consists, September 27, 1953, Time Table No. 178
Passenger Train Consists, October 27, 1957, Time Table No. 4
Passenger Train Consists, October 28, 1963, Time Table No. 17
Passenger Train Consists, April 25, 1965, Time Table No. 20

One thing I've discovered is that in order to get a "more accurate" consist one must also cross-check, train by train, the individual car assignments in the front of the book, and the storage mail/RPO assignments located in the back of the book (the formatting/inclusion of such data varied over the years).

One must remember that all of these consist books were prepared prior to the widespread use of word processing and computerized data bases.  Thus, errors or inconsistencies were possible.
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