NH S-1 & 2 Cab

An open forum to discuss all aspects of the New Haven Railroad.
rsullivan
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

14 Nov 2017, 06:46 #21

Mr. Evans. I for one am very appreciative that you did post this thread topic. I don't go to the Shapeway 3D Printing site to see what is new or available, and was totally clueless about these. I'm looking forward to each version that comes out, and I will buy enough to replace the DEY-3 and DEY-5 for the number of each model manufacturer's versions I have right away. While 3D Printing is becoming the wave-of-the-future for small parts and unique items, I still believe it will be a 'snooze and you lose' like everything else that comes out. So, I'm going to get what I think I will need right up front and place them with the models' boxes or the large moving boxes to apply as I get-to-them. But, I will at least have them to get-to-them when needed, and I won't be crying in my soup that I should-have-done-did-buy when they were available. I think it is great that Mr. Redden is willing to share not only his talents on Shapeways, but to come onto the Forum and explain what is going on in this Beta phase of the product development. So, please keep at least me in mind when you see something new and for the New Haven on the 3D scene and share it on the Forum again. Thanks.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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John Sheridan
Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 20:07

14 Nov 2017, 13:26 #22

rsullivan wrote: Mr. Sheridan. While I can only use eyeball comparisons of the two views submitted above with all the various angles of DEY-3 and DEY-5 cabs available in pictures in various issues of Shoreliner and books about the New Haven, I must be missing something that you have seen. To my mind's eye, the arch of the roof looks correct in both the front and the back sides of the cab. All of the windows appear to be the correct dimensions, and the distances from the roof to the window tops all look correct too. The thickness of the metal supporting the windows and the cab roof in the front looks right too. I also failed to see anything on the sides or on the back that seemed incorrect. I know you are involved in model design for manufacturers, and are aware of pitfalls that those of us who only make a few of a model aren't going to run into. Is your CAD and windows different when your cab's 3D printing was made? Just curious as I'm looking forward to these becoming available to replace the cabs on all my S-1 and S-2 models in the near term. Thanks.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
The front windows are different in the angle since the cab roof is lower. Also, the side windows are a different width than the S-2 (they are larger). The rear windows are slightly shorter on the NH cab. 

I have drawings of the NH cab, the S-2, & S-4 cabs to compare & the major differences are mainly in the window shapes & dimensions. The S4 had 2 versions of cab design - Riveted & welded. Also, the windows in the S4 had rounded edges & gaskets where the S1/S2 cabs had sharp corners & window trim.  

Mind you, the Atlas S2 is a 30+ year old design & has some issues of its own. Is it close ? Yes. It is. Is it 100% correct ? Nope. 

As for fit, I pulled an Atlas cab off an S2 model & could place it right on the S1/S2 PK2000 chassis. The footprint is the same dimensions. What is different is the mounting tabs on the inside. 

Lastly, just because we love the New Haven so much - There are 2 different versions of the Train Control boxes on the Engineer's side of the body. One type was more common the other. At least the Whistle is the same throughout the NH S1/S2 line. 

I did publish the NH cab I made back in 2016. Here's the link - new-haven-dey-3-5-low-cabs-t8420-s20.html#p73071
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rsullivan
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

14 Nov 2017, 16:43 #23

Thanks Mr. Sheridan for pointing out the differences between the S-1 (DEY-3), S-2 (DEY-5) and the S-4 cabs. While at first I thought the discussion of the S-4 cabs wasn't germaine since the New Haven didn't have any, I remembered that the model manufacturers call theirs S-2/S-4 in most cases so it is important. I downloaded all five views of your version of the DEY-3 cab and all three views of Mr. Redden's DEY-3 cab for side-by-side comparisons. Yes, this is an apples to oranges comparison since your views are of the completed model and Mr. Redden's are computer generated images of the completed model, however they give a starting point to view each and the pictures available in Shoreliner, vol. 35, iss. 1, New Haven Diesel Locomotives Volume 1: Switchers & Road Switchers, and New Haven Power 1938 - 1969. What I mention is not to be meant as critical in any way, as your model cab as a mass production model is way superior than what I could hope to accomplish, and I applaud your efforts. All my observations are eyeball and not printed out and measured observations, so there are error variables of the various viewing angles, shadow effect, and lighting. While your center window support on the front view is probably spot on in measurements, it has a wider appearance than those in the pictures in the referenced works above. Not by much mind you, but more so than the computer generated image does. Given the angles of your views, the area below the curve and drip edge of the roof on your model appear to have less depth than the images on Mr. Redden's cab or in any of the pictures in the above references. You also included the armrest which isn't shown on the majority of the pictures in the above references. Please remember that I'm not nitpicking, just saying what I can see, and that may differ from many other people see too. However, your model is more than I could ever accomplish on a mass scale! I don't know how to use a CAD program. I learned to scale and make drawings and use existing drawings for individual models made as a group by military model makers. They made models of equipment from pictures and I use the techniques they taught me. When I read about your cab originally back in 2016 and again just now, I didn't get the impression they were for sale anywhere. Mr. Redden's are and will be, and if they are 95% correct for the New Haven, I for one will be ecstatic! My first two Roco S-2 were modified in 1991 by removing the roofs and shaving the contour down to the lower profile, adding a thin brass sheet roof, adding vertical shutters to one, and whistles to both to make them into DEY-5. Painted them in PFE Orange and Pullman Green, then decaled them for the New Haven. Now I have 16 DEY-3's that are undecorated and NH in various schemes that I have dreaded the thought of changing all the roof profiles, and will gladly snatch up Mr. Redden's version once his Beta phase has been completed. I will do the same for my six DEY-5's too if and when he produces a cab matching them. Thanks for all your contributions to the various model manufacturers, and your articles. I have benefited from the models that you helped with from Rapido, Bethleham Car Works, and Atlas, and have made modifications (or plan to) based on your articles to the models I already have. 
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr. member #3967
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NHJJ4
Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2003, 09:18

18 Nov 2017, 16:49 #24

John Sheridan wrote: I know this as I have already CAD'd the cab out completely including the Whistle & the train control box. 

The Windows are the biggest concern besides the roof. 
 John,
Is there any way I could get a set of measurements for the cab. And or Drawing's  ALL I have ever been able to get is a line drawing of the end of the cab. No sides or the engine side. and since you have the CAD done It would help. All I have been able to get in the last 20+ years is the 1 end cab drawing.  Due to no units left and ALCO didn't have drawings of the unit. Where did you come up with the side drawing's ?
   Got a note yesterday ( Shapeways parts in Mail )
  Thank's

 Jim Evans
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mredden
Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2003, 08:48

18 Nov 2017, 21:55 #25

I had to work from photographs for the sides and front because I, like you Jim, could not find any drawings for them. I used Photoshop perspective crop to square things up, if not square, then scale them to match the dimensions of the back I designed from the drawing in the Shoreliner. Then I could scale dimensions off the photos or draw lines where objects appear in the photos. Another source of dimensions was the original tall cab on the Proto 2000 S1.

Mike Redden
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NHJJ4
Member
Joined: 18 Aug 2003, 09:18

19 Nov 2017, 19:40 #26

  Mike,
 I went looking for some of my parts I had put away for a move I didn't make  BUT I did find 1 Atlas cab an Early one with Cast on door grabs but it will work.
   I cant wait till the cab's get here. Will be fun to look, Check and see if they will work on each other.
I got my last set of Hand Rails for my SD 40-3 MR I am playing with so I can start doing that. 3 different sets to make 1 correct.
 Thank's again
Jim Evans
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mredden
Member
Joined: 21 Aug 2003, 08:48

27 Nov 2017, 21:10 #27

I received my first 3D print of a flat five piece cab.

All of the details were printed successfully due to proper 3D print orientation.

Some striations are visible on faces that are supposed to be smooth and flat. I suspect this is due to the current state of 3D printing in Shapeways Frosted Extreme Detail material. The striations may be helped by priming with a primer that contains fillers. An article by Tom Madden said that he scrubbed his printed parts with Comet, followed by priming with Mr. Surfacer 1000. I will try something similar to see if the results are satisfactory.
  
The parts were very thin by design. They are so thin that the parts are very flexible and don't lay flat. There is limited bonding area for assembly of the flat parts.

I will try adding ribs under the cab roof to help maintain the proper shape and provide expanded bonding area where it attaches to the front, back and sides. This will require some adjustments to the cab front top windows, lowering the tops of the windows so a roof rib can be added behind the piece between the top of the windows and the top of the cab front without being visible through the windows and allowing for space to add "window glass" for those windows. 

I will also add thickness to the cab front, back and sides to reduce the flexibility of the parts and create additional bonding area for assembly. I will have to move the engineer's side cab front windows slightly towards the hood to allow for a thicker cab side and room for the "window glass" to be installed.

I've already added a fuel filler to match the mounting hole on the Proto S1 cab. This fuel filler could be used on cabs for the Atlas S2s, where the Proto S1 fuel filler would not be available.

I am still working on a design for the three-chime whistle. Hoping to get that done before the next test print.

I have purchased an Atlas Master S2 cab and hood for test fitting. It looks like the current design will fit the Atlas S2 without modification.

I still have plans to do the thinner-paneled radiator grills used on the early S1s. I will offer these as separate parts as well as combining them with the cab.

Mike Redden
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rsullivan
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

28 Nov 2017, 02:50 #28

Thanks for the update Mr. Redden. As soon as you are satisfied with the results, please let us know. I will start to buy my replacement cabs then.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr. member #3967
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