New Haven Heavyweight Pullman Cars

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New Haven Heavyweight Pullman Cars

U23bnynhh
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Joined: 12 Jan 2011, 15:52

13 Feb 2018, 21:12 #1

I am looking for some modeling information on the floor plans of the Heavyweight Parlor, Sleeper, and diners on the NH.
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

14 Feb 2018, 00:16 #2

Mr. U23bnynhh. Can you be more specific since the Standing Data NHRTI 5.25.1 -5.25.3 show 63 different types by Pullman Plan No. and Lot No., many of which were rendered as drawings by the late Mr. A.A. Lawrence in the 1960's and released as NHRTI Data Sheets.
     If you are interested in the Pullman parlor cars that were converted to the 600 series coaches, there are floor plans in Mr. Wayne Drummond's article "Butterflies to Caterpillars" in Shoreliner, vol. 21, iss. 3. The cars were converted between 1949 and 1953.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr. member #3967
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rapidobill
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Joined: 27 Jan 2012, 23:42

14 Feb 2018, 20:58 #3

If you know teh plan number many of teh floor plans are on line at http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/c ... der/nosort 
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Peter R Ness
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Joined: 17 Dec 2005, 06:21

14 Feb 2018, 23:44 #4

Hi There,
Passenger Car diagrams of limited nature for some HW cars can be found on the Alphabet Route web site under Equipment Rosters.
Regards,
Peter
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

14 Feb 2018, 23:48 #5

Mr. U23bnynhh. If you want to know the Pullman Plan No. and Lot No. for any specific heavyweight parlor, sleeper, or diner, just list the names here on the Forum, and I will give the Pullman Plan No. and Lot No. for each car you list.
Richard (short form) member #3967
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John Sheridan
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Joined: 23 Feb 2009, 20:07

15 Feb 2018, 13:15 #6

What I am looking for is the Lot numbers for the Yankee Clipper Diners. I have the lot numbers for all the parlors & Obs.
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

15 Feb 2018, 16:11 #7

Mr. Sheriden. According to Mr. Thomas C. Madden's The Pullman Project databases, at: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm. On the Car Name Index database, the Dreadnaught, NH #5247, is file 3242 and shows the Pullman Plan No. as 2585C. On the Pull_Data_V2 database, the Dreadnaught, NH #5247, is file A4386 and shows Pullman Plan No. 2585C, Lot No. 4351, Lot Sequence 4, Pullman Plan No. 2585D on 11/12/1917. I couldn't find the John Bertram, NH #5248, on either file, and it should have been listed in the sequence numbers, but wasn't. They have the same drawings by the late Mr. A.A. Lawrence on Standing Data NHRTI 5.5247, and are on the same official New Haven Diagram #24317 in the NHRTI's New Haven Railroad Passenger Car Diagrams (1975). So, they should have been in the same lot number and might not have made it onto Mr. Madden's databases. I hope this helps you out.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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DVINNYV
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DVINNYV
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Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 18:41

16 Feb 2018, 19:51 #8

rsullivan wrote: Mr. Sheriden. According to Mr. Thomas C. Madden's The Pullman Project databases, at: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm. On the Car Name Index database, the Dreadnaught, NH #5247, is file 3242 and shows the Pullman Plan No. as 2585C. On the Pull_Data_V2 database, the Dreadnaught, NH #5247, is file A4386 and shows Pullman Plan No. 2585C, Lot No. 4351, Lot Sequence 4, Pullman Plan No. 2585D on 11/12/1917. I couldn't find the John Bertram, NH #5248, on either file, and it should have been listed in the sequence numbers, but wasn't. They have the same drawings by the late Mr. A.A. Lawrence on Standing Data NHRTI 5.5247, and are on the same official New Haven Diagram #24317 in the NHRTI's New Haven Railroad Passenger Car Diagrams (1975). So, they should have been in the same lot number and might not have made it onto Mr. Madden's databases. I hope this helps you out.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
The diners numbers: 5238, Diagram 24315; 5239-3246, Diagram 24316; and 5247-5248, Diagram 24317 do not show up on the Pullman Project data base because they were built to a New Haven contract with Pullman Standard and were owned by New Haven.  The "Faneuil Hall" listed in the Pullman Project database was a car built, owned, and operated by Pullman in 1925 and sold to the US Government in 1943 and converted into a Hospital Ward car.  It is not the the same "Faneuil Hall" as New Haven diner 5243.  The passenger cars that have New Haven diagrams are cars built for and owned by the New Haven.  These diners were also upgraded at the Readville car shops during various times and did get the B.F. Sturtevant ice activated air conditioning systems installed.  Unlike the coaches, diners have more under floor equipment to block photos of the elusive chilled water piping system.  Requests for drawings from the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum on these diners will only provide the drawings of record when the cars were built and delivered.  Drawings of the upgrades will not be available from them because Pullman did not do the design or modifications to the cars.
Dave 1362
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

16 Feb 2018, 22:23 #9

Mr. Dave. That explains why I couldn't find any of the Diner Car Series 5239-5246 with the exception of "Faneuil Hall" as Pullman Plan No. 3960, and none of the others on the Car Name Index database. Thanks for the information, and I'll change the additions to my Standing Data NHRTIA 5.5239 and 5.5247. I thought all Pullman cars were made to some specific plan number even if they were made specifically for one railroad company. 
Richard (short form) #3967
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DVINNYV
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DVINNYV
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Joined: 29 Mar 2008, 18:41

17 Feb 2018, 01:12 #10

The plot thickens.  I went chasing after details of New Haven diners No. 5249-5254 because the New England Rail Services instruction for converting the AHM 12-1 Pullman into a diner stated these cars did not have the galley windows extend into the letter board.  From the Pullman Library I obtained Plan 4004 for cars 5249-5253 and plan 3952 for car 5254.  These are floor plans of the cars and the details of window sash opening size as well as the spacing between windows.  Table locations and locker location and sizes are also called out.  The drawing list for a given Lot Number of a specific Plan Number is required to determine the details for a given car.  The drawing list includes "foreign" or vendor (other than Pullman) drawing numbers as well.  Unfortunately, the Pullman Library does not have copies of any of the vendor drawings.  The drawing list will provide the drawing number for the under floor equipment which shows brake system equipment location and water tanks and battery boxes, etc.. The drawing list will also list the vendor drawings for : tables, chairs, ovens, grills, ice boxes, etc.  Therefore, a photo of the interior of a Plan 4004 diner built for Pullman company ownership may look very different from a Plan 4004 diner built for the New Haven or any other railroad customer.  And of course, few if any drawing archives seem to have the "liabilities" against any given revision of a drawing.  When changes to a drawing are noted during construction or from service experience, they are some how documented as "liabilities" against the current drawing revision by the owner of the drawing.  When enough of these "liabilities" have accumulated to justify a new revision to the drawing, they are incorporated and a new revision to the drawing is issued.  And so, I have heard more than one manufacture complain that when all the drawings for a given car or locomotive are pulled from the various archives, they cannot build the model  That is because the "liabilities" against the drawings that fixed those problems have not been archived as well, because they may have been kept in the design supervisors desk and not in the drawing files.  Enjoy the quest.  Dave 1362.
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