Naugatuck Branch in the 1970's

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Rodeo Joe
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Joined: 17 Nov 2012, 23:57

16 Aug 2017, 20:31 #11

Noel,

Can you help out somebody not familiar with railroad terminology? What are the agreement seats you mentioned? 

Joe
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Noel Weaver
Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2003, 07:23

16 Aug 2017, 22:43 #12

Rodeo Joe wrote: Noel,

Can you help out somebody not familiar with railroad terminology? What are the agreement seats you mentioned? 

Joe
Years ago the New York Central and the two engine service unions made an agreement and it was in the agreement books of both crafts spelling out exactly what was to be provided.  Agreement seats were able to be adjusted as to height, back rest, forward and back, had perforated cushions (good in hot weather), good arm rests and probably other items that slip me right now.  On a locomotive this made a big difference.  My very first job as an engineer was a midnight yard job at Oak Point which came before I even finished my qualification trips as an engineer, it was winter and they were desperate for engineers, OP-31 or whatever the number was had New York Central RS-3 no. 5502 which had been running on the Harlem out of Brewster and was in far better shape than anything on the New Haven was during that period.  The cab was toasty warm when I got on the engine, it had a good working radio although we weren't able to use it much because the crews did not have their portable radios yet at that time.  Most of all the seat was far more comfortable than anything on the New Haven was at that time.  Both the New Haven and the Pennsylvania had cab seats that were far inferior to what the New York Central had.  The road engines for both the PRR and the NHRR were sent to the shop for new seats almost as soon as the railroad was able to obtain and install them, until this happen the New York Central engine crews almost always refused to work on either PRR or NHRR engines.  More than once a road freight job going up the Hudson out of Oak Point had to have the engines switched out or turned (at MO) or they weren't going anywhere.  Oak Point got a bunch of former New York Central engines for yard work so the jobs that had Central crews could get their work done.  After the merger the New York Central got a percentage of the yard work in Oak Point, Harlem River and Hunts Point and this improved our conditions a huge amount.  The only New Haven yard engines that never got agreement seats were the 0931-0995 series and the 0600 series, the railroad wanted to retire these engines sooner than later but they had to keep them longer than anticipated.  They ended up in other former NHRR yards or someplace on the PRR which did not have a decent seating agreement.  Fast forward to Conrail and one of the first things they acknowledged was the former New York Central/Penn Central seating agreement and all of the locomotives from the other railroads that did not have a seating agreement went to the shop ASAP for new agreement seats.  Some might make light of agreement seats but try sitting on a "lolypop seat or a toadstool seat" for a long winded freight job and you would appreciate what I am saying here.  It stood this way until Conrail started running foreign road locomotives through on a few trains, later many trains.  When that occurred they agreed that the Conrail crew would not have to take a foreign road engine out of the engine house if it did not have suitable seats but if one came through on a train we had to go as is.  Once in a while we would get a Chicago North Western or Norfolk Southern engine with terrible seats and it made us appreciate what we had on Conrail.  If this power was dispatched out of a Conrail terminal with these type seats they would put a Conrail engine on the head end and that took care of the condition.  I guess there could be more to this story sometime down the road.
Noel Weaver
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Rodeo Joe
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Joined: 17 Nov 2012, 23:57

17 Aug 2017, 02:05 #13

Thank you sir, appreciated! 👍

Joe
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Ruzbasan
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Joined: 06 Nov 2004, 00:06

21 Oct 2017, 16:26 #14

I did some further research, found more photos, and discovered some errors in my earlier post. 

Here is my revised list of locomotives used on the Naugatuck Line (and on the Highland to Plainville) from 1969-1995:

Penn Central (1969-1976): Lower Naugatuck Line (Maybrook-Cedar Hill Freights): RS-3, U-25B, U25C, U33B, C425, GP40  (Maybrook freights end in 1974)
Upper Naugatuck Line (including Highland to Plainville): RDC-1, RS-3, RS3M (Plainville only), RS-11, GP9, S3, SW1200 (Derby Switcher) 

Conrail (1976-1982): RS3M (Plainville only), RS-11, GP9, GP10, GP15-1, GP30, SW1500 (Derby Switcher), SW1, B23-7
Boston & Maine (1982-1987): GP9, GP18 (low nose), GP38-2, GP40, GP40-2
Guilford (1987-1995): GP18 (low nose), GP38, GP39-2, GP40

Almost all of the above I have verified by photos. I only need the following two photos to completely verify everything in the list:

-Penn Central SW1200 (as Derby Switcher) 
-Penn Central RS3 (in Waterbury)

Does anyone have any photos of a Penn Central RS-3 or Penn Central SW-1200 in Waterbury or on the Naugatuck Line?
Thanks for any assistance!
Last edited by Ruzbasan on 14 Nov 2017, 23:31, edited 4 times in total.
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DBrion
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Joined: 21 Jun 2006, 05:52

21 Oct 2017, 18:16 #15

If you consider a RDC-1 as a locomotive, MN #11 ran Waterbury-Bridgeport in the 1980's.  I gave photographic evidence to NHRHTA several years ago.  

Not sure if this what you're looking for.
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Noel Weaver
Member
Joined: 18 Feb 2003, 07:23

21 Oct 2017, 21:50 #16

DBrion wrote: If you consider a RDC-1 as a locomotive, MN #11 ran Waterbury-Bridgeport in the 1980's.  I gave photographic evidence to NHRHTA several years ago.  

Not sure if this what you're looking for.
RDC cars were considered locomotives for all practical purposes.

We need to define the "Naugy" in three pieces.  1.  Devon - Derby Junction had all of the Waterbury passenger trains plus all of the Maybrook freight trains and some of the Waterbury freight trains as well.  2.  Derby Junction - Waterbury had all of the Waterbury freight trains and passenger trains.  3.  Waterbury - Winsted had one local freight daily later reduced to six and finally five days a week and not more than three days a week between Torrington and Winsted.  
Piece 1 had any power on the New Haven on freight trains to and from Maybrook including occasionally L & H R, Erie, PRR, B & M and probably others as well.  Derby Junction had mostly RS-3's although the Hartford - Maybrook jobs generally had 0400's mostly in 3 or 4 unit sets but occasionally 2 units.  The tonnage was much heavier between Waterbury and Derby Junction so although the grades were heavier between Waterbury and Hartford the tonnage was generally much lighter and in this case two units would sometimes do.  Waterbury - Winsted was RS-3 country although in earlier years they ran RS-1's and RS-2's in and out of Waterbury on both passenger and freight.  In the late 1950's they ran a Oak Point - Springfield job and that had three units of almost anything, this job ran after the bridge fire in Cedar Hill which the railroad was originally not going to rebuild but eventually they decided to rebuild the bridge and re-open the West Hump.  
After Penn Central took over the New Haven the trackage between Devon and Derby Junction could and did have almost any type of power that the Penn Central operated although if they ran "F" units over this territory it was very uncommon.  Six motor units were not uncommon in this territory either.  Boston and Maine Budd Cars were used on the Naugy at various times when the NHRR was short of them, they could run them between Bridgeport and Waterbury and between South Norwalk and Danbury because neither line was cab signal territory at least during the NHRR years.  After Penn Central took over former NYC Budd Cars were occasionally used on both of the mentioned branches as well.  

Noel Weaver
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TomCurtin
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Joined: 13 Jul 2017, 14:13

23 Oct 2017, 19:01 #17

Noel Weaver wrote:
OH - By the way the Naugy was all Budd Cars after the floods in 1955 except for a period in 1956 and 1957 when 465 and 442 were running between Waterbury and Bridgeport.  These two trains existed mostly for Railway Express, the mail was gone after August 19, 1955.  Trains 465 and 442 had a 500, several baggage cars and a combo.  They connected at Bridgeport with 97 WB and 186 EB on weekdays.  
Noel Weaver
 Noel, that little item is quite interesting.  I ddi not know that.

Tom
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Ruzbasan
Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2004, 00:06

24 Oct 2017, 03:49 #18

DBrion wrote: If you consider a RDC-1 as a locomotive, MN #11 ran Waterbury-Bridgeport in the 1980's.  I gave photographic evidence to NHRHTA several years ago.  

Not sure if this what you're looking for.
Hi DBrion,

That is the kind of photo evidence I am looking for. I have heard and read anecdotal stories of a Penn Central RS3M Dewitt operating in Plainville but I need to confirm this with an actual photo.

Gary
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DBrion
Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2006, 05:52

24 Oct 2017, 04:19 #19

I was fortunate to have gotten a cab ride in MN RDC-1 #11, Bridgeport-Waterbury-Bridgeport, on Oct. 8, 1989.  This was the same trip that I was able to take photos from up in the station clock tower.  I donated the two boxes of slides to NHRHTA in 2012.  Hopefully there us something in there that you can use.
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TomNelligan
Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2004, 09:57

24 Oct 2017, 13:04 #20

Yes, PC assigned Dewitt Geeps to Plainville in the 1970s. I took this photo a few months into the Conrail era, but nothing had changed yet. The train had originated at Plainville. RS3m units were fairly common at the time and several were assigned to Hartford as well.

http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=239161
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