NH746EJO
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Joined: November 24th, 2007, 7:18 pm

June 29th, 2018, 12:08 pm #21

WAS THERE AN MN-3 or NM-2 ?

Although it would seem to fill in a gap, I can find no MN-3 or NM-2 in the 1947 Freight Schedules or 1955 engine assignments.  I have a 1931 freight schedule but they aren't there either (1931 was a depression year so maybe that is a factor).  I have the 1924 schedules but that is not helpful because Midway was still open.  For example there was listed a New London-Midway transfer.  For example -- "Westward. - Handles cars from all points for New London and C.V.R.R. including Norwich lines, also pier cars for movement in B-H 1.    Eastward. - Handles Norwich line cars and New London house freight for all points."  (Norwich line was the steamship line.) 

As an aside, I noticed an interesting freight in the NYNH&H 1931 schedules  - a daily Cedar Hill-White River Junction Freight with symbols B-8 (north) and B-7 (south).   It left Cedar Hill at 11:45 p.m. reaching White River Jct at 1:15 p.m. the next day.  Southbound it left WR Jct. at 1:35 p.m. reaching Cedar Hill at 5:00 a.m. (Notice it ran at night on the NYNH&H.)  It handled CV and CP Ry. freight.   Times also given for Hartford, Springfield, Northampton (North only) Greenfield, Brattleboro, Bellows Falls, and Claremont Jct. (south only).    The freight suggests to me that the New Haven preferred to rout Canadian freight over its own line for as long a distance as possible and therefore New London was not a preferred interchange point.    
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joneschmidt
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Joined: June 19th, 2018, 11:05 am

June 29th, 2018, 12:43 pm #22

Perfect.  Thank you.
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NH746EJO
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Joined: November 24th, 2007, 7:18 pm

June 30th, 2018, 12:50 pm #23

MORE ABOUT NEW LONDON
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        I photographed Train number 430 at about 2 PM on October 14, 1956 at Amherst, Mass. on its way from Montreal to New London and the New Haven interchange.  The power is Canadian National 9306, a CFA 16-4 built by Canadian Locomotive Works in December 1952.  The second unit is a matching B unit.  I also photographed CNR GP 9s at New London.  (Sorry if this post seems non-New Haven, but it is related to interchange with the New Haven at New London.)

NEW LONDON LOCAL
        The Hartford Times on July 3, 1953 published an article by a reporter who rode a local freight from New London to Stafford Springs.  Here are some excerpts which provide an idea of what local work was done on the Southern Division.   M-3-a 2-8-0 450 left New London on July 1, 1953 at 7:03 AM with 472 tons, eleven cars.  At Lebanon it paused to let a northbound freight (Extra 8740 ???) powered by the same type of C-Liners as in my photo above but before renumbered.  At Lebanon a car was left for Berkman Grain Co. and two empties were picked up.  450 took water at Willimantic and left some LCL.  Also,  there was a car for the Boston Grain Co. and a car of coal for the Park-Elliott Co.  A car of cement was left at South Coventry (Probably on a team track ? ).  At Mansfield a carload of steel was left for construction at UCONN.  Later a carload of cement was left near Hanson's General Store and two cars of reinforcing rods for the Wilbur Cross Parkway extension ( Probably on a team track also ? ).  At Stafford there was LCL work at the freight house, a car of coal was set off and five empties were picked up.  The reporter left the train at Stafford but it must have continued to Palmer, 15 miles ahead.  The reporter said the freight he rode was a thrice-weekly run.

ANOTHER LOCAL WITH 450
          By coincidence, about three years latter at the end of 1956 or start of 1957 (I lost the date) I followed a local freight behind M-3-a 2-8-0 450 by car for a while out of New London.  450 was the only M-3 with an Elesco rather than Coffin Feedwater Heater and had eleven cars, the same as in the story above..  At Montville I photographed 450 going up the Palmerstown branch with a car.  The branch was about three miles long.  I didn't try to follow up the branch but remembered a long wait before 450 got back to its train.  I had spent part of the day at the New London yard but didn't keep notes.  I recall N-5 467 going out in a freight a few cars back of the head-end power (double headed steamers were often separated due to bridge limitations).  Unfortunately, I spent too much time in the roundhouse and missed the freight that was being made up  -- an extra I think.  There were CN GP9s at the engine yard and an N-5 and M-3 in the roundhouse with Alco S-4 8027.  I wish I had been better at note keeping but I wasn't good at taking notes at school either.
            The following shots are of M-3 450 heading up the Palmerstown branch at Montville six miles north of New London and N-5 2-8-0 467  heading for its train at the north end of the New London yard with the engine yard leads on the left.
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joneschmidt
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Joined: June 19th, 2018, 11:05 am

June 30th, 2018, 1:10 pm #24

This is great information, thank you.  We're modelling manifests 429/430/490/491, long-distance (Palmer Division) locals 738/739/740/741, and the 1st and 2nd Montville locals which ran between E New London and Norwich/Yantic. The photos and descriptions are great. One of our challenges is reconciling spur and industry names with the CV's ICC (Industrial Car Control) book (of which we have only a couple of pages) and the 1956 TT. 
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NH746EJO
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Joined: November 24th, 2007, 7:18 pm

July 1st, 2018, 11:54 am #25

ENGINE RATINGS AND SPEED LIMITS

The only CV Southern Division Employee Timetable I have is No. 83, effective Jan.15, 1928 but it might be helpful in modeling if you don't have one from the 1950s.  Northbound between New London and State Line, M-3 and N-5 2-8-0s were limited to 1500 tons not including a caboose and 2275 tons from there to Palmer.  If you assume 50 ton cars, that means only about 30 car freights out of New London, maybe more with lighter cars.  Southbound the limit was only 1450 tons from Palmer to State Line, 1750 from there to Willimantic, 1500 to Lebanon and 2275 to New London.  The limits suggest why many freights were double headed.  Some N-5s had boosters which were removed by the mid 1950s  -- boosters raised ratings by 325 to 525 tons depending on the specific grade.  

Freight trains were limited to only 25 miles an hour between New London and Stafford and 30 mph from there to Palmer.  Many bridges had lower limits ranging from 5 to 20 mph.  In fact, M-3 and N-5 2-8-0s were not allowed on the Winthrop Cove bridge which connected the New Haven with the East London Yard.  Obviously many bridges were strengthened  since preserved CN 4-8-4 6218 ran across the bridge with a fan trip in the 1960s (I rode the trip to Brattleboro).  It is common knowledge that the 2-10-4s never went south of Brattleboro -- I never saw one but remember at Brattleboro on my first fan trip, fans remarking there had recently been a 2-10-4 there.  I didn't even know what they looked like although I had once seen a relatively accurate scratch-built model.

Below is a photograph I got under I-95 at the New London coaling tower close to the end of the steam era but lost the date.  Note that CN GP9 4524 has white flags for an extra which may not be clear in this download.  I know the N-5 2-8-0 467 left in the freight a few cars behind the head-end power but I missed the departure and I'm not sure the GP9s were up front but they probably were. (I'm at a point where if I didn't get a picture I may not remember.)  It was hard getting a photo here because looking south meant shooting into the sun.
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joneschmidt
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Joined: June 19th, 2018, 11:05 am

July 1st, 2018, 12:06 pm #26

Yes, we do have the CV ETT from 1955, along with a couple of pages from the ETT of 1958.  They only show the southward trains, so we have to do a lot of inferring, since all of the northward trains were run as extras.
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Statkowski
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Joined: March 5th, 2003, 4:39 am

July 1st, 2018, 12:48 pm #27

I, too, was on that 6218 fantrip from New London to Brattleboro and return.  As I remember, it was pointed out that the line had just been reballasted with river rock, not something from New Haven Traprock.

Time does fly, doesn't it?
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NH746EJO
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Joined: November 24th, 2007, 7:18 pm

July 2nd, 2018, 12:32 pm #28

Statkowski wrote: I, too, was on that 6218 fantrip from New London to Brattleboro and return.  As I remember, it was pointed out that the line had just been reballasted with river rock, not something from New Haven Traprock.

Time does fly, doesn't it?
Henry - are you in these photos I took on the May 29, 1966 trip behind CN 4-8-4 6218 to Brattleboro ?  Is that you in your father's arms on the right side of the bottom photo at Palmer ?  Were you still in diapers ?  The first photo is from the baggage car on the Winthrop Cove bridge which connects the New Haven with the Central Vermont yard in New London  -- the New Haven's bridge over the Thames River is out of sight in the background next to the I-95 bridge. IMG_0002-001.jpg IMG_0001.jpg
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joneschmidt
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Joined: June 19th, 2018, 11:05 am

July 2nd, 2018, 1:24 pm #29

Wow, 746 (got a name?), great shot of the bridge.  We will have that bridge on our model.  One of our contributors loves to build bridges so that's his task.  He does beautiful work, so we're looking for lots of detailed shots of the bridges.
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Statkowski
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Joined: March 5th, 2003, 4:39 am

July 2nd, 2018, 2:58 pm #30

Seeing as how I was 18 years old at the time, I don't think I was being held in anybody's arms.  And being single, nobody was being held in my arms, either.

Many, many moons ago.  Time flies when you're having fun, or something.
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