Horns

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Horns

rfranzosa
Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005, 10:55

21 Aug 2017, 17:48 #1

Hi All,

On another forum, someone was putting together a list of the diesel horn types used by specific railroads;  under New Haven he entered 'Hancock'.

I responded that the Hancock 'air whistle' was installed predominantly on units purchased between the mid 50's and the early 60's as the original Alcos, etc did not have them, nor did the last roadswitchers (DERS7, DERS8).

After posting my limited knowledge, I was wondering.  Has anyone produced an all-inclusive list of NH diesel and electrics and the horns they used?

Thanks,

Rick Franzosa
#0697
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jkasey
Member
Joined: 06 Jul 2017, 14:31

21 Aug 2017, 18:58 #2

I think someone, perhaps Paul Cutler III put a list up on this forum quite a wile ago. Try this wbsite for the sounds at least.:  www.dieselairhorns.com

John
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jkasey
Member
Joined: 06 Jul 2017, 14:31

21 Aug 2017, 19:09 #3

jkasey wrote: I think someone, perhaps Paul Cutler III put a list up on this forum quite a wile ago. Try this wbsite for the sounds at least.:  www.dieselairhorns.com

John
Here is the list that Paul put up.

John

 05 Sep 2008, 21:01 #1
I got an e-mail from a fellow club member of mine who's adding sound to his HO model of an FA-1, and he wanted to know what air horn would have been used.
I found a source of this info in my NHRTIA "Diesel Locomotive and Rail Diesel & Gas Electric Cars Diagram Book". Since I have the info out, I
thought I'd post it for information purposes (IOW, for the heck of it).




HH600 DEY-1a, HH660 DEY-1b, S-1 DEY-3, 44ton DEY-4, S-2 DEY-5: Info not shown


LS-1200 DEY-6: 5" Star Brass Chime


RS-1 DERS-1b: 2 x WABCO E-2


RS-2 DERS-2b: 2 x WABCO E-2


RS-3 DERS-2c: 2 x WABCO E-2


H16-44 DERS-3: 2 x WABCO E-2


GP-9 DERS-4: 2 x MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Whistle)


RS-11 DERS-5: 2 x MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Whistle)


H16-44 DERS-6: 2 x MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Whistle)


DL-109 DER-1: 2 x WABCO E-2


FA-1 DER-2a: 2 x WABCO E-2


FB-1 DER-2b: WABCO A-2


FB-2 DER-2c: WABCO A-2


PA-1 DER-3a: 2 x WABCO E-2


CPA24-5 DER-4: 2 x WABCO E-2


FL9 EDER-5: Front - MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Whistle), Rear - MM&M Model H4700 (Hancock Air Whistle)


"Dan'l Webster" EDER-6: Leslie S-3B


"John Quincy Adams" EDER-7: Leslie S-3L


SW1200 DEY-7: 2 x MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Whistle)


FCD Rail Bus (11-19): MM&M Model 4710 (Hancock Air Whistle)
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rfranzosa
Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005, 10:55

21 Aug 2017, 21:25 #4

Thanks, John!

So, the only gaps I see, in looking through your list (and the previous thread)

DEY-2 (GE Model 'Y')
DEY-4 (GE 44 ton)
DERS-7 (GE U25B)
DERS-8 (Alco C425)

Rick Franzosa
#0697
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Statkowski
Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 09:39

22 Aug 2017, 01:18 #5

The S-1 DEY-3 and S-2 DEY-5 would have been Hancock 3-chime air whistles.  The 44-ton DEY-4 might have been a Leslie A200-156, but that's just a guess.  
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PJ McArdle
Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2006, 09:40

22 Aug 2017, 03:35 #6

Just curious- MM&M Model 4700 --is that Manning, Maxwell & Moore? a valve manufacturer?
P J McArdle
York, Maine
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Statkowski
Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 09:39

22 Aug 2017, 05:09 #7

Hancock Inspirator Co. was a division of Manning, Maxwell & Moore.  The whistles used by the New Haven listed MM&M as the supplier, yet they're referred to as Hancock air whistles.  Air whistles fit right into the scheme of things for steam and air valve appurtenances, and the manufacturing thereof.
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rsullivan
Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

22 Aug 2017, 17:12 #8

Mr. Franzosa. On February 19, 2004, Mr. Corlissbs made a post to the NHRHTA Forum, Archive #2, thread “Whistle Notes.” He said “electrics, HH600, S-1, and S-2 all came with Crosby brass air whistles.” So, I would list the diesels as follows:
HH600 DEY-1a: Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle
HH660 DEY-1b: (possible ¿Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle?)
S-1 DEY-3: Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle
S-2 DEY-5: Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle
               (Note. This contradicts Mr. Statkowski’s post above that they were Hancock 3-chime air whistles. Mr. Statkowski has loads of official documentation and personal notes from the New Haven. Mr. Corlissbs collects Crosby whistles and the tones they make, and is knowledgeable on the railroads that used them. I’m presenting both, even if it contributes to confusion.)
Electrics: I looked at the articles in Shoreliner and the pictures in Mr. Robert A. Liljestrand’s and Mr. David R. Sweetland’s New Haven Electric Locomotives & MU Cars (no date) and compared them with images of various air / steam whistles online that show manufacturer and type.
EP-1 #01 - 035: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EP-1 #036 - 048: looks like taller version of Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EP-2: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EP-3: Shoreliner, vol 34, iss 2, article by Mr. Rick L. Abramson titled “The EP-3 New Haven’s Ultimate Passenger Box Cab,” page 37, “As delivered brass steam locomotive whistles. Replaced with diesel type Leslie Tyfon air horns in 1945.” From web article LocomotiveHorns.info – Tyfon, it is probably Leslie Tyfon A-200-LL / A-200-156 looking at the length compared with another roof equipment. It appears to be 24 29/32” long. If 18 11/32” long, it would be Leslie Tyfon A-200-H / A-200-233. The A-200-LL was the 1940’s classification and the A-200-156 the 1950’s classification.
EP-4: Shoreliner, vol 31, iss 2, article by Mr. Richard Pedersen titled “The New Haven’s EF-3 Monster Power Machine,” page 35 “…EP-4s were delivered with vertical brass whistles, as used on steam engines. These however, were quickly changed to air horns.” As the Leslie Tyfon was the most common air horn of the 1930’s through the 1950’s, was used by the New Haven on the EP-3’s in the 1945 conversion, and the length of the air horn in the pictures, it is probably Leslie Tyfon A-200-LL / A-200-156.
EP-5: Based on the NHRTI diagram 18.370-379 and Mr. Robert A. Liljestrand’s and Mr. David R. Sweetland’s New Haven Electric Locomotives & MU Cars, 2 x MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Chime)
EF-1: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EF-2: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EF-3: Shoreliner, vol 31, iss 2, article by Mr. Richard Pedersen titled “The New Haven’s EF-3 Monster Power Machine,” page 35 “* The EF-3s were delivered with trumpet shaped air horns…” Based on the year the EF-3s were built and the length of the air horn in the pictures, it is probably Leslie Tyfon A-200-LL / A-200-156.
EF-4: 3-chime, trumpet shaped air horns
EY-1: no whistles visible in pictures
EY-2 and EY-2a: short, 1-chime brass whistle, possible ¿Crosby?
EY3: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
MU’s: No whistles visible until:
Steel RPO – Baggage Trailer #2759 and 2767: long, thin horizontal whistle
MU Combine #4670 – 4676 and Coaches #4400 – 4488: 2 x unshrouded MM&M Model 4700-3 or Model 4700 (Hancock Air Chime)
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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rfranzosa
Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005, 10:55

22 Aug 2017, 19:18 #9

rsullivan wrote: Mr. Franzosa. On February 19, 2004, Mr. Corlissbs made a post to the NHRHTA Forum, Archive #2, thread “Whistle Notes.” He said “electrics, HH600, S-1, and S-2 all came with Crosby brass air whistles.” So, I would list the diesels as follows:
HH600 DEY-1a: Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle
HH660 DEY-1b: (possible ¿Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle?)
S-1 DEY-3: Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle
S-2 DEY-5: Crosby brass 3-chime air whistle
               (Note. This contradicts Mr. Statkowski’s post above that they were Hancock 3-chime air whistles. Mr. Statkowski has loads of official documentation and personal notes from the New Haven. Mr. Corlissbs collects Crosby whistles and the tones they make, and is knowledgeable on the railroads that used them. I’m presenting both, even if it contributes to confusion.)
Electrics: I looked at the articles in Shoreliner and the pictures in Mr. Robert A. Liljestrand’s and Mr. David R. Sweetland’s New Haven Electric Locomotives & MU Cars (no date) and compared them with images of various air / steam whistles online that show manufacturer and type.
EP-1 #01 - 035: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EP-1 #036 - 048: looks like taller version of Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EP-2: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EP-3: Shoreliner, vol 34, iss 2, article by Mr. Rick L. Abramson titled “The EP-3 New Haven’s Ultimate Passenger Box Cab,” page 37, “As delivered brass steam locomotive whistles. Replaced with diesel type Leslie Tyfon air horns in 1945.” From web article LocomotiveHorns.info – Tyfon, it is probably Leslie Tyfon A-200-LL / A-200-156 looking at the length compared with another roof equipment. It appears to be 24 29/32” long. If 18 11/32” long, it would be Leslie Tyfon A-200-H / A-200-233. The A-200-LL was the 1940’s classification and the A-200-156 the 1950’s classification.
EP-4: Shoreliner, vol 31, iss 2, article by Mr. Richard Pedersen titled “The New Haven’s EF-3 Monster Power Machine,” page 35 “…EP-4s were delivered with vertical brass whistles, as used on steam engines. These however, were quickly changed to air horns.” As the Leslie Tyfon was the most common air horn of the 1930’s through the 1950’s, was used by the New Haven on the EP-3’s in the 1945 conversion, and the length of the air horn in the pictures, it is probably Leslie Tyfon A-200-LL / A-200-156.
EP-5: Based on the NHRTI diagram 18.370-379 and Mr. Robert A. Liljestrand’s and Mr. David R. Sweetland’s New Haven Electric Locomotives & MU Cars, 2 x MM&M Model 4700-3 (Hancock Air Chime)
EF-1: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EF-2: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
EF-3: Shoreliner, vol 31, iss 2, article by Mr. Richard Pedersen titled “The New Haven’s EF-3 Monster Power Machine,” page 35 “* The EF-3s were delivered with trumpet shaped air horns…” Based on the year the EF-3s were built and the length of the air horn in the pictures, it is probably Leslie Tyfon A-200-LL / A-200-156.
EF-4: 3-chime, trumpet shaped air horns
EY-1: no whistles visible in pictures
EY-2 and EY-2a: short, 1-chime brass whistle, possible ¿Crosby?
EY3: looks like Crosby steam gage, brass cylinder, 3-chime
MU’s: No whistles visible until:
Steel RPO – Baggage Trailer #2759 and 2767: long, thin horizontal whistle
MU Combine #4670 – 4676 and Coaches #4400 – 4488: 2 x unshrouded MM&M Model 4700-3 or Model 4700 (Hancock Air Chime)
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
Great work, Mr. Sullivan.  I also found (from a NH engineering drawing) that the DERS7 (U25B) has Leslie S-3-K-R, and the DEY-4 (GE 44 tonner) was likely a WABCO A2.  That leaves 2 unknowns from my list 1) DERS8 (C425) and 2) The 'original' RDC horns (prior to ~1954 when they were replaced by Hancock 4700s)

Rick Franzosa
#0697
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Statkowski
Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2003, 09:39

22 Aug 2017, 22:54 #10

May well have been Crosby products.  Hancock (and MM&M) were local suppliers.  I'm on jury duty, sitting in a trial, all this week and my brain is fried (and it's only day two).
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