Electrics at Work

An open forum to discuss all aspects of the New Haven Railroad.
nhhe52
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004, 05:19

26 Oct 2017, 00:49 #61

This is another example of single messenger type wire suspended directly from the catenary bridge.  Not sure of the location, possibly Stamford:
A1161179-34FA-4817-AA6E-34CD978C4C77.jpeg
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

26 Oct 2017, 02:40 #62

Thanks Mr. Ed(nhhe52) for all those great pictures with the explanations. Now I can see how to use the Type 3 contact/messenger by adding a primary messenger wire with the obvious curvature with connections to the secondary messenger that is the top wire of the Type 3, and not try and replicate the shallow curvature of the secondary messenger wires. I love your skill with a soldering iron. As far as Mr. Abramson's comment about the spacings of your triangular trolley hangers, pages 250 and 251 of Street Railway Journal, Vol. XXX (30), No. 7, says, "The trolley wire is supported from the catenary cables at 10-ft. intervals by means of triangular trolley hangers of varying lengths. These hangers are so adjusted in length that the trolley wire is maintained in a horizontal position (Figs. 1 and 2), it being 6 ins. below the catenary cables at the middle point of the span." It then continues to cite figure 12 and describe the triangular hangers. When they refer to trolley wire, that is the same as the contact wire in other articles and diagrams. I think your triangular catenary is great, and I would not take a scale ruler to them. I think if you were to place them exactly every ten feet, you would need to fabricate at least three more sizes for each side of the catenary. Plus, getting the mid-point at exactly six inches for each catenary, for each span might be difficult even with a jig. As far as time left, just do what I do. I decided to stick around for another 145 years. I might finish most of my layout within that time frame. At the rate of production of your quality work, I know you would finish in the next 100 to 145 years. (Geneticists say we can continue cellular regenerartion for 200-300 years before individual cells start to mutate.) Thanks for sharing the information and pictures.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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nhhe52
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004, 05:19

26 Oct 2017, 03:27 #63

Richard:

100-145 years old in order to complete the layout sounds about right.  And it will look amazing to me as I won’t be able to see a damn thing by then. 😀

Regarding the soldering, for the record, I designed and drew all the catenary bridge and Cos Cob bridge parts in CAD.  Don created the brass etching sheets from the CAD drawings and had all the brass parts etched.  Don is an amazing craftsman and great to work with.  Don assembled the high wire towers and various Cos Cob catenary bridges.  He assembled the two mid-span lift sections and fixed girder sections of the Cos Cob Bridge model.  I assemble the six bridge truss sections and added the plastic detail parts, rivet decals, etc.  I assembled the the few triangular wire sections completed to date.  Not sure how much of the layout will get the triangular wire at this point but most likely will be limited to the Cos Cob Bridge scene given the time it takes and segmenting it around curves will be challenging.  I will be using Don’s standard catenary bridges, anchor bridges and wire types throught the rest of the layout and a small section of his NYC 3rd rail, over the next 35-80 years.  😀

Don has also painted and decaled three brass engines and a heater trailer for me, and regeared one other engine.  He can do just about anything!

Not much time left.  The bridge alone has taken 3+ years of part-time work from inception, design, fabrication, assembly and painting. I have all my main-line track down and wired but not yet painted or ballasted.  Currently working on structures and bridge piers for an elevated section.  And then there’s all the rest of the overhead wire to hang!  Landscaping is in the distant future.

But it keeps me busy in my spare time and I enjoy doing it and have met some very nice people along the way.

Ed
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Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 21:23

28 Oct 2017, 04:07 #64

Ed:
As info, that photo of 379 in Stamford is not under "single messenger wire." If you look closely you will see the primary messenger, below that the auxiliary messenger and below that the trolley. This particular location had the triangular wire. It was all torn down as a result of the huge derailment in Jan. 1959.
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nhhe52
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004, 05:19

28 Oct 2017, 13:03 #65

Rick:

By single messenger I mean single upper messenger as opposed to the double upper messenger of the triangular wire, not that it didn’t have a lower auxiliary messenger paired with the trolley wire.

Ed
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

19 Dec 2017, 03:59 #66

Earlier I commented about the transitions from the different types of catenary and showed diagrams of the Section Break and Flexible Section Break that were used at the anchor bridges. Mr. Albert Brecken just shared an article in the Electric Railway Journal, Vol. XLIV, No. 9, which included two pthotos of an anchor bridge that displayed the two types of section breaks. The first one I showed the diagram of called Section Break is the long wooden piece with two pointed ends connected to the catenary and two parallel wooden beams. The second one I showed was the Flexible Section Break that had a thinner piece of wood and metal ends. The two photos below show the same anchor bridge with what are called three of the older style and one of the newer style section breaks.
NH RR Catenary section break pic 1.png
New Haven RR anchor bridge with the two types of Section Breaks in use.
NH RR Catenary section break pic 2.png
A slightly different angle of the same New Haven RR anchor bridge with the two types of Section Breaks in use.

In the first picture it is difficult to see the 'new' type of section break. However, in the second picture it is clear that the 'new' type of section break is the Flexible Section Break I showed in diagram on an earlier post. Also, the three 'old' section breaks are the Section Break I showed in the first diagram I posted. So, both types were in use at the same time for the transition of the catenary at the anchor bridges, at least in December of 1908. On the same file posted by Mr. Brecken was a page from a May 1907 article titled "Sprague: Trunk-Line Operation." It included a picture of a transition to a double overhead catenary trolley wire. It appears to be under a foot bridge, altough the caption reads "Depression under crossing highway bridges." So, transitions must have occurred at location other than anchor bridges. That foot bridge appears pretty stout, however the ends are not visible so if it has the same strain capabilities as an anchor bridge is up for question. Judging by the passenger platforms in the picture, I believe this is probably one of the original New Haven passenger stations.
NH RR Catenary section break pic 3.png
A transition from triangle catenary to a double catenary in New Haven on the New Haven RR.

Just wanted to share this information that Mr. Brecken so kindly shared with some of us.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 21:23

19 Dec 2017, 14:39 #67

Those shots of the anchor bridge are at Cos Cob draw. Note all the older style semaphores and the signal mast on trk-3 side.
Very interesting.
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

19 Dec 2017, 15:37 #68

Mr. Abramson. Thanks for sharing the location of the anchor bridge pictured. I didn't know where that particular anchor bridge was located. But, now that you mentioned it, I recognize some of Mr. Ed(nhhe52)'s modeling work in the background of the pictures. I think it is amazing how accurately the New Haven's engineers designed and erected the catenary structures and draw bridge over the Mianus River back before 1907 so it would replicate Mr. Ed(nhhe52)'s catenary structures and draw bridge pictures he shared with us earlier on this thread. Simply amazing.
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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Joined: 04 Aug 2017, 21:23

19 Dec 2017, 16:20 #69

Richard:
If you are not aware of this interesting fact, there is no wire across the draw. All trains coast across.
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rsullivan
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Joined: 14 Dec 2016, 20:36

19 Dec 2017, 16:30 #70

Thanks Mr. Abramson. I find that quite interesting that the New Haven coasted across all the draw bridges. I have been trying to think of a way to keep my pans from springing up while crossing the draw bridges over the Bronx River, Pelham Bay, and the draws in Bridgeport and Devon and catching the catenary when I get that far on my layout (probable over a year from now if lucky). How do you keep yours from springing up and catching the catenary?
Richard H. Sullivan, Jr.  member #3967
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