Using Kenpo Knife Techniques in the real world.....

Using Kenpo Knife Techniques in the real world.....

Joined: February 28th, 2004, 1:04 am

June 6th, 2009, 6:42 pm #1

In response to Mr. Hebler's request on the previous thread:

I have had a lot of people asking me about knife defenses lately and what I think is important, but I was also noticing that a lot of them were not willing to abandon their Kenpo techniques just yet in favor of a method that was much easier to use, in my opinion.

So, I thought until then, that maybe suggesting how to make the Kenpo Techniques more doable, would create the desire to go outside the system and also deeper inside the system, to find answers to the gaps in their defenses, some of which they are unaware of at this point in time and level in their training. and to also help understand their Kenpo Knife Techniques a little better.

So my first suggestion, if you choose to stay Kenpo only, is to go to your Instructor and take a private class to get all of the knife techniques in the system in case you don't already know them.

They are:
Piercing Lance
Glancing Lance
Raining Lance
Entwined Lance
Clipping the Lance
Thrusting Lance
Unfurling Lance

There might be more or less depending on where you train, but those are the ones I was taught the rest I learned and changed on my own!!!!

Once you get all the techniques, I would then suggest that you learn them on both sides and consider the differences and similarities that could be used in your favor.

There are also other techniques that can be used for Knife defenses such as Breaking The Thunder (Rod) for example, but that will take some consideration on your part.

You should understand that a Knife is a psychological weapon and can have devastating results, so you need to be in the proper mind set..AT ALL TIMES!!!!!
Determine ahead of time how far you are willing to go to defend yourself and then be prepared to live with your level of response.

I am not trying to be anyones moral guide, thats up to you..all I know, is after seeing individuals stabbed on a daily basis and watching a few of them walk around with their intestines hanging out, that I am willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that does not happen to me or anyone in my care!!!!

so nuff said about that!!!!

I am also going from the assumption that after all my preaching that you have chosen not to carry a weapon, so the following suggestions are for UNARMED considerations.

First thing to consider, If you find yourself in a Knife Defense situation, it is important to identify the weapon

Is it a Knife, Razor, broken Bottle, or something else?
Is it a Dagger, sharp on both edges?
How long is the blade?
Is the weapon for stabbing, slashing or both?

Knowing what you are being attacked with can help you come up with the right solution quicker, or place yourself in a position that limits their options!!!!

There are different styles and methods people choose to use when attacking with a Knife, knowing ahead of time what style or method they are using can help you once again make a better choice in your response.

The Kenpo Techniques are designed for committed attacks..
So you have to get the attacker to commit if you want to use them for your defense.

So how do you make them commit?
I have heard many Instructors say that the best defense against a knife is a strong defense, solid stances, hands up and good technique..

I tried that once and the guy did a Zorro impersonation and sliced the **** out of an $800 suit that I was wearing, not to mention my arm!!!! So, not a big fan of this method..

Then there is the Bruce Lee method of Respond Like An Echo.
If you use this approach youre just going to be playing catch up and letting someone else dictate how the fight is going to go.

Then there are those that want to go wading in on an attacker and dominate them.
Ill let you know right now that if you try that **** with me and go after the knife in my hand, I am going to get you with the knife or weapon that you don't see, hidden somewhere else on my body but thats just me!!!!!

So, where does that leave us?
We want them to attack in a manner that allows us to know where the attack is coming from, what the target is and allows us to use a technique that we are prepared to use....

To do this, you have to present an open target, give them an opportunity to come at you..you change your'e centerline, use feints, look away, call them a bad name, look scared, do what ever you need to make them commit, then you can respond with something you know.
Waiting for them to attack and then picking the right technique to use is going to get you hurt, so already have something in mind to initiate the response you want!!!!

I personally would prefer being in Freestyle mode, In motion, using feints, strikes and repositioning, especially if they are presenting the knife for intimidation reasons....or placing my hands in a manner that makes me appear animated, hiding a zone defense, to get them to commit, again thats just me. You would not just stand there flat footed if you were fighting for the Grand Championship at the Internationals, so why would you just stand there waiting for someone to stab you!!!! Its a lot harder to hit a moving target!!!!

Whatever your choice for Knife Defense, look for the weapon arm/ elbow, to move from their body, very good indicator of a commitment..

Consider environmental awareness and what the obstacles are that could limit your response.

Consider alcohol distorting your perspective and range.

Have back up plans and avenues of escapes.

Use your 45 degree angles.

Try to move behind the blade, behind their elbow.

Use long flowing breaths, not short choppy ones.

Do you want to come away with the weapon???

Instinctive reactions need to be addressed ahead of time so you dont react in a way that creates openings in your defense.

Do you have friends and family in close proximity, do they?

Try to break their concentration, broken rhythm.

If you sacrifice your arms and legs then you are not going to have anything left to defend your self with, so use something else.

Prepare for the worst.

Know first aid, in case you have to save your own life.


If you take the time to really consider Knife Attacks as a grouping then you will see were the gaps are in you defense and know what to look for to help fill them.

Don't limit yourself to one persons perspective about defending against a Knife, ask yourself what you think is important and go from there.

You have to be able to move, hollow out, strike off balance, avoid, recover, change up and so on when dealing with a knife.

In my opinion, the best thing to have, over technique and solid basics is speed as it mostly relates to timing.

....and then there is my method.

Again, just my opinion, hope it helps.

Rich



Last edited by knpo22 on June 6th, 2009, 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 26th, 2006, 2:15 am

June 6th, 2009, 7:18 pm #2

Thanks for sharing your expertise. The bottom line is knives are hard to defend against, expecially against a good knife fighter. That's why I always carry my Glock 27.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 28th, 2004, 1:04 am

June 6th, 2009, 7:46 pm #3

You are right on Jaime....Knives are the hardest weapon to defend against, that's why I would never suggest being unarmed with dealing with a blade and would suggest learning to be a great knife fighter to anyone, a great asset to the Glock 27 and as a buffer for in range and up close and personal!!!

It has been my experience that the one sure fire, guranteed,100%,full proof deterrent to avoiding a knife fight with a knife fighter is to deploy your own blade and smile!!!!!

Any trained knife fighter will walk away...only those that don't know what they are doing will stay and fight thinking they can win a 4-3 point encounter....

Stay safe.

Rich

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

June 6th, 2009, 8:39 pm #4

In response to Mr. Hebler's request on the previous thread:

I have had a lot of people asking me about knife defenses lately and what I think is important, but I was also noticing that a lot of them were not willing to abandon their Kenpo techniques just yet in favor of a method that was much easier to use, in my opinion.

So, I thought until then, that maybe suggesting how to make the Kenpo Techniques more doable, would create the desire to go outside the system and also deeper inside the system, to find answers to the gaps in their defenses, some of which they are unaware of at this point in time and level in their training. and to also help understand their Kenpo Knife Techniques a little better.

So my first suggestion, if you choose to stay Kenpo only, is to go to your Instructor and take a private class to get all of the knife techniques in the system in case you don't already know them.

They are:
Piercing Lance
Glancing Lance
Raining Lance
Entwined Lance
Clipping the Lance
Thrusting Lance
Unfurling Lance

There might be more or less depending on where you train, but those are the ones I was taught the rest I learned and changed on my own!!!!

Once you get all the techniques, I would then suggest that you learn them on both sides and consider the differences and similarities that could be used in your favor.

There are also other techniques that can be used for Knife defenses such as Breaking The Thunder (Rod) for example, but that will take some consideration on your part.

You should understand that a Knife is a psychological weapon and can have devastating results, so you need to be in the proper mind set..AT ALL TIMES!!!!!
Determine ahead of time how far you are willing to go to defend yourself and then be prepared to live with your level of response.

I am not trying to be anyones moral guide, thats up to you..all I know, is after seeing individuals stabbed on a daily basis and watching a few of them walk around with their intestines hanging out, that I am willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that does not happen to me or anyone in my care!!!!

so nuff said about that!!!!

I am also going from the assumption that after all my preaching that you have chosen not to carry a weapon, so the following suggestions are for UNARMED considerations.

First thing to consider, If you find yourself in a Knife Defense situation, it is important to identify the weapon

Is it a Knife, Razor, broken Bottle, or something else?
Is it a Dagger, sharp on both edges?
How long is the blade?
Is the weapon for stabbing, slashing or both?

Knowing what you are being attacked with can help you come up with the right solution quicker, or place yourself in a position that limits their options!!!!

There are different styles and methods people choose to use when attacking with a Knife, knowing ahead of time what style or method they are using can help you once again make a better choice in your response.

The Kenpo Techniques are designed for committed attacks..
So you have to get the attacker to commit if you want to use them for your defense.

So how do you make them commit?
I have heard many Instructors say that the best defense against a knife is a strong defense, solid stances, hands up and good technique..

I tried that once and the guy did a Zorro impersonation and sliced the **** out of an $800 suit that I was wearing, not to mention my arm!!!! So, not a big fan of this method..

Then there is the Bruce Lee method of Respond Like An Echo.
If you use this approach youre just going to be playing catch up and letting someone else dictate how the fight is going to go.

Then there are those that want to go wading in on an attacker and dominate them.
Ill let you know right now that if you try that **** with me and go after the knife in my hand, I am going to get you with the knife or weapon that you don't see, hidden somewhere else on my body but thats just me!!!!!

So, where does that leave us?
We want them to attack in a manner that allows us to know where the attack is coming from, what the target is and allows us to use a technique that we are prepared to use....

To do this, you have to present an open target, give them an opportunity to come at you..you change your'e centerline, use feints, look away, call them a bad name, look scared, do what ever you need to make them commit, then you can respond with something you know.
Waiting for them to attack and then picking the right technique to use is going to get you hurt, so already have something in mind to initiate the response you want!!!!

I personally would prefer being in Freestyle mode, In motion, using feints, strikes and repositioning, especially if they are presenting the knife for intimidation reasons....or placing my hands in a manner that makes me appear animated, hiding a zone defense, to get them to commit, again thats just me. You would not just stand there flat footed if you were fighting for the Grand Championship at the Internationals, so why would you just stand there waiting for someone to stab you!!!! Its a lot harder to hit a moving target!!!!

Whatever your choice for Knife Defense, look for the weapon arm/ elbow, to move from their body, very good indicator of a commitment..

Consider environmental awareness and what the obstacles are that could limit your response.

Consider alcohol distorting your perspective and range.

Have back up plans and avenues of escapes.

Use your 45 degree angles.

Try to move behind the blade, behind their elbow.

Use long flowing breaths, not short choppy ones.

Do you want to come away with the weapon???

Instinctive reactions need to be addressed ahead of time so you dont react in a way that creates openings in your defense.

Do you have friends and family in close proximity, do they?

Try to break their concentration, broken rhythm.

If you sacrifice your arms and legs then you are not going to have anything left to defend your self with, so use something else.

Prepare for the worst.

Know first aid, in case you have to save your own life.


If you take the time to really consider Knife Attacks as a grouping then you will see were the gaps are in you defense and know what to look for to help fill them.

Don't limit yourself to one persons perspective about defending against a Knife, ask yourself what you think is important and go from there.

You have to be able to move, hollow out, strike off balance, avoid, recover, change up and so on when dealing with a knife.

In my opinion, the best thing to have, over technique and solid basics is speed as it mostly relates to timing.

....and then there is my method.

Again, just my opinion, hope it helps.

Rich


This is a good video, think of the stick as a knife.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TtP4x-sRew

Good stuff.

Regards,
Gary
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 5th, 2006, 12:56 pm

June 6th, 2009, 10:51 pm #5

Another good video can be found here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvJvPfqW ... L&index=16
Last edited by thunderinghammers on June 6th, 2009, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 23rd, 2007, 2:37 am

June 6th, 2009, 11:17 pm #6

Thanks!

DP
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

June 6th, 2009, 11:37 pm #7

Another good video can be found here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvJvPfqW ... L&index=16
knife-fighters are irreversibly stupid, and unable to think out simple defenses against them-there kuhroddy guys and their defenses against a stab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6Ujdi4Lu0
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

June 6th, 2009, 11:52 pm #8

Awareness #1, Evasion #2, then we can be evasive...

Head on, combat fighting! WWF or UFC check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u--Z6cis3xo

Regards,
Gary
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 28th, 2004, 1:04 am

June 7th, 2009, 12:47 am #9

knife-fighters are irreversibly stupid, and unable to think out simple defenses against them-there kuhroddy guys and their defenses against a stab.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6Ujdi4Lu0
That's why I cheat,.....and advocate windage and elevation first, LOL!!!!

Rich
Quote
Like
Share