Snapping twig and orbits....

Snapping twig and orbits....

Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

October 8th, 2008, 5:10 am #1

So for those of you who missed the thread allllllll the way down at the bottom now. Mike Miller and I were talking about different ways to mess up snapping twig.Specifically I was questioning his version as it sent the attackers arm in an orbit that can be difficult to deal with.

Here again is Mike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AvwFZt_1F8

and here is mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqaqCDMF_eA

Mostly just providing some contrast as to what happens to the arm that's pushing you. I've done it the way Mike does and gotten whacked in the orbit. On purpose and by accident. By stitching the arm to the side I cancel height, open my next target and bring it in range. Pardon my lack of zip. I hate the camera and I'm shy about hitting the guy I'm working with just yet.

I await to bask in the flame! ....but at least it's Kenpo.

Thanks!
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
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Joined: May 31st, 2006, 4:12 pm

October 8th, 2008, 7:20 am #2

Mr Tavis,

I liked your video....however, i wouldn't call it "your version" it's a pretty basic performance of the ideal phase and for the most part, looks like you got that down pretty good from a text book stand point.

If you're experiencing re-orbiting, then i think you need to re-evaluate the many benefits of fulcruming and learn the importance of coordinating your left PINNING hand with your frictional pull of your right.

I'm sure someone probably already said this already from the other thread which i didn't read because i was too lazy to, so my apologies for the redundancy, if any.

Again, your video was good...you just need to loosen up. Mr. Millers....well.....i just loved it...awesome stuff.
Last edited by magdesign on October 8th, 2008, 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 3:36 am

October 8th, 2008, 12:39 pm #3

So for those of you who missed the thread allllllll the way down at the bottom now. Mike Miller and I were talking about different ways to mess up snapping twig.Specifically I was questioning his version as it sent the attackers arm in an orbit that can be difficult to deal with.

Here again is Mike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AvwFZt_1F8

and here is mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqaqCDMF_eA

Mostly just providing some contrast as to what happens to the arm that's pushing you. I've done it the way Mike does and gotten whacked in the orbit. On purpose and by accident. By stitching the arm to the side I cancel height, open my next target and bring it in range. Pardon my lack of zip. I hate the camera and I'm shy about hitting the guy I'm working with just yet.

I await to bask in the flame! ....but at least it's Kenpo.

Thanks!
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
Mr Miller slow down but other than that not bad.

the second video practice so more on the exact execution of the break your stance and the angle in which you did the frictional pull and you shouldn't get the orbit you are referring to.
just my 2 cents worth.but hey what do i know!

Later
Jason Arnold
Canada via Sweden
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Joined: February 13th, 2004, 1:04 am

October 8th, 2008, 2:03 pm #4

Both styles of the technique were done to "Show and tell" their own style of the technique and done well. I would have made it a point to illustrate the very first move the set your base and PIN/Hit at the person's elbow should have been a sign post of a major hurt to anyone's elbow with not only a width control but also killing the back up weapon and inflicting pain which should interrupt the thought process at least at this point and time.
If you haven't already broken the arm or at least separated the joint your next move should be a frictional pull with your outward heel-palm/chop either to open the line of entry, strike the throat or be ready to be used as another means of defending the possible re-entry of the right arm.
The elbow strike/frictional pull action both are good ways to disturb a persons balance and let's not forget the third weapon always prepared to be inserted at any time being the front leg into the groin area as a alternative weapon acted as an insert....just in case the height zone needs to be re-adjusted once again.
This is a great technique I have found as a perfect entry to teach the ability to graft or move into the "What if Phase" ....great post guys.

TCB....Sean Kelley
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Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

October 8th, 2008, 2:22 pm #5

Mr Tavis,

I liked your video....however, i wouldn't call it "your version" it's a pretty basic performance of the ideal phase and for the most part, looks like you got that down pretty good from a text book stand point.

If you're experiencing re-orbiting, then i think you need to re-evaluate the many benefits of fulcruming and learn the importance of coordinating your left PINNING hand with your frictional pull of your right.

I'm sure someone probably already said this already from the other thread which i didn't read because i was too lazy to, so my apologies for the redundancy, if any.

Again, your video was good...you just need to loosen up. Mr. Millers....well.....i just loved it...awesome stuff.
"If you're experiencing re-orbiting, then i think you need to re-evaluate the many benefits of fulcruming and learn the importance of coordinating your left PINNING hand with your frictional pull of your right."

No re-orbiting. That was the point of our discussion. In my world the way Mike did it would get me the smack every time. So got that under control and some ideas for when we don't.

My version is how we're taught just to be clear. I wouldn't call any of this mine except for the sake of discussion.

"Again, your video was good...you just need to loosen up."

Ya think? LOL! In front of a camera I feel like a little flippin' worm on a big flippin' hook. Mike's got me in the ham department for sure.

Do you all get what I'm saying about the orbit though?

Thanks!
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

October 8th, 2008, 2:55 pm #6

So for those of you who missed the thread allllllll the way down at the bottom now. Mike Miller and I were talking about different ways to mess up snapping twig.Specifically I was questioning his version as it sent the attackers arm in an orbit that can be difficult to deal with.

Here again is Mike:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AvwFZt_1F8

and here is mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqaqCDMF_eA

Mostly just providing some contrast as to what happens to the arm that's pushing you. I've done it the way Mike does and gotten whacked in the orbit. On purpose and by accident. By stitching the arm to the side I cancel height, open my next target and bring it in range. Pardon my lack of zip. I hate the camera and I'm shy about hitting the guy I'm working with just yet.

I await to bask in the flame! ....but at least it's Kenpo.

Thanks!
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
First, Craig, thanks for putting yourself out there. As you can see, mine was more of a demo display to show speed as I didn't strike my partner with the hammer or the sandwiching elbow. I bypassed it to show the speed of the delivery. It certainly would have to be slowed down if I wanted to show more manipulation of the strikes making contact so that I wouldn't harm my partner.

As written we strike the throat, which is fine. If I were to utilize any part of this technique on the streets, it's likely I would go to the throat, rather than the shoulder bump. We must analyze the technique in it's entirety to get a better understanding.

1st of all, it is possible to cause an orbit, but if you regulate your strike to the shoulder well enough and also do the frictional pull along with the stance change properly the orbit will not be there. The shoulder bump is to open our line of entry.

Another thing to consider is that it's easy for the opponent to hit you with the right arm (negative orbit) when he knows what you are doing. On the streets he doesn't know what I am going to do and if done correctly his left harm is hurting from the possible break/hyperextension. He won't be thinking about hitting you with the right arm. If your quick enough, you will be hitting him with the hammer fist a second later anyway.

Please consider this: I believe in attacking the attack and rely heavily on combat mode, not sport. In attack mode it doesn't matter what your enemy does. If you worry about your enemy you become defensive and he controls you. You must focus on driving through him and damaging his skeleton and what he does will not matter.


Again, I appreciate you putting yourself out there. Now I can't wait for Dr. Crouch's video.

Michael Miller, CKF
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

October 8th, 2008, 3:18 pm #7

I think this shows the various parts of it, explained well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc_sxvF- ... re=related

Regards,
Gary
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

October 8th, 2008, 3:32 pm #8

As a demo it was okay. I don't know this guy so I will not tear him apart. I will say there were some glitches in there (many extra steps and too wide of a stance for starters). One major problem is his weight being more on his heels during the break. You can tell that his weight is back, which means if the attacker continues forward with momentum the defender will be completely out of whack and unstable. You need to stay engaged with mass forward, not back.

As for demo, not too bad.

Michael Miller, CKF

PS. Maybe I'll do a video tonight explaining what I mean and post it on Youtube. I'll show the difference in weight distribution between the two.
Last edited by millhouse23 on October 8th, 2008, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

October 8th, 2008, 4:01 pm #9

"If you're experiencing re-orbiting, then i think you need to re-evaluate the many benefits of fulcruming and learn the importance of coordinating your left PINNING hand with your frictional pull of your right."

No re-orbiting. That was the point of our discussion. In my world the way Mike did it would get me the smack every time. So got that under control and some ideas for when we don't.

My version is how we're taught just to be clear. I wouldn't call any of this mine except for the sake of discussion.

"Again, your video was good...you just need to loosen up."

Ya think? LOL! In front of a camera I feel like a little flippin' worm on a big flippin' hook. Mike's got me in the ham department for sure.

Do you all get what I'm saying about the orbit though?

Thanks!
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
"Mike's got me in the ham department for sure."

My mom used to tell me that all the time when I was a child. "You are such a ham," she would say. She said I always loved being filmed as a child growing up. I think my daughter is going to be like that. She is showing the tell tale signs. God bless her, LOL.

Michael Miller
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Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

October 8th, 2008, 4:20 pm #10

First, Craig, thanks for putting yourself out there. As you can see, mine was more of a demo display to show speed as I didn't strike my partner with the hammer or the sandwiching elbow. I bypassed it to show the speed of the delivery. It certainly would have to be slowed down if I wanted to show more manipulation of the strikes making contact so that I wouldn't harm my partner.

As written we strike the throat, which is fine. If I were to utilize any part of this technique on the streets, it's likely I would go to the throat, rather than the shoulder bump. We must analyze the technique in it's entirety to get a better understanding.

1st of all, it is possible to cause an orbit, but if you regulate your strike to the shoulder well enough and also do the frictional pull along with the stance change properly the orbit will not be there. The shoulder bump is to open our line of entry.

Another thing to consider is that it's easy for the opponent to hit you with the right arm (negative orbit) when he knows what you are doing. On the streets he doesn't know what I am going to do and if done correctly his left harm is hurting from the possible break/hyperextension. He won't be thinking about hitting you with the right arm. If your quick enough, you will be hitting him with the hammer fist a second later anyway.

Please consider this: I believe in attacking the attack and rely heavily on combat mode, not sport. In attack mode it doesn't matter what your enemy does. If you worry about your enemy you become defensive and he controls you. You must focus on driving through him and damaging his skeleton and what he does will not matter.


Again, I appreciate you putting yourself out there. Now I can't wait for Dr. Crouch's video.

Michael Miller, CKF
OK this was the discussion I was looking for and you're an evil bastage for making me get the camera out to get it....LOL!

Yes the break, I wouldn't characterize it as a break but it hurts like hell, does effectively cancel width. So the right arm is out of play long enough to continue. The left arm, if batted off to the side at all works against you in two ways. First the orbit. If the guy is a bad ass and the pain doesn't get him, he's still pushing or you miss the "break" that left arm ends up in your face. Second you push your next target away from you. My point was pinning or chopping that arm straight down or slightly diagonally to your left will cancel height, open the target and bring it to you with one motion.

Seriously, I'd like to see you do the tech just fast enough. Not fast, just fast enough. So if you make another vid consider it if you would.

I'm going to try and get circling destruction tonight just for contrast as well.

Thanks!
CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
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