Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

February 8th, 2011, 3:57 pm #11

I like SS and feel he is very good...I like Gene LeBell also...Story about him choking out SS and problems which occur at times when the choke is held to long...I have a patch from Judo Gene for getting choked out by him...I did not urinate myself as happened to SS, or so the story goes...


Bruce Lee was an exceptional MA star and actor...Could he have beaten SS or Judo Gene in his day??? I doubt it...

I have been in a lot of altercations myself, the rear choke is one that I used more times than I have fingers and toes...LOL

Gary
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Joined: April 22nd, 2005, 4:20 am

February 8th, 2011, 10:18 pm #12

The Secrets of Tracy's kenpo are they reality or fantasy, fact or fiction?

Hello i recently posted this question on Sanjosekenp, so i would like to ask the kenponet forum for their opinions.

As a 10year+ student of the tracy system, reaching the rank of Nidan in 2000, right around the time of the 1st GOE. Joe Simmonet quoted to a group of our black belts " Your kenpo starts too late, and ends too soon". after thousands of hours of teaching, countless katas, chinese set, earth & sky, shaolin hand set ect...under my belt his words really started to make me question some things.

Prior to becoming a black belt, it was told that once you reach the level of black belt all the doors will open, lights will turn on, the 9principles of Tracy's kenpo will be reveled and you would start to understand the secrets of Tracy's kenpo. Atleast thats what the head instructor of the school i attended fortold.

Now over those years i've seen good instructors/students leave after reaching BB or above. some were good friends that i keep in touch with, now weather they left because of ego, petty difference or personal agenda. Never the less no one spoke of reaching a level where the secrets of the system were reveled.

After learning more useless katas that had no relevance to Kenpo. Doing MORE & MORE techniques on how to defend against the "ALL MIGHTY RIGHT PUNCH!" i asked the question WHY! none of the other bb had any answers,One Instructor told me because Master Tracy said so, and the head instructor(who never came on the mat to do any type of hands on application or teaching) seem to give me the run-around. all i got from him was "keep practicing"

So i ask, Are the secrets of Tracy's Kenpo reality or fantasy, how long does one stick around to try and find the truth or do you make the choice and seek the answer elsewhere, weather it be another style of kenpo or an entirely different style of martial arts.

Thank You!
Godlikeskill
... as one poster rightly put it. Look, at ten years move in the direction that most concerns you. If you're stumped, seek out someone like Joe Simonet (or many, many others) and ask them to train you. Find a Kenpo guy/gal that will lead you to the path of reality and 'dents' then you'll have the question you ask answered. At this level, Nidan/2nd Degree you are what I call in the "Terrible Two's", that is, asking, challenging, searching for some way to release your self from the doubts that may be troubling you. Find and admit to a weakness you might have, or think you have, tighten your helmet cord, strap on your jock and jump into the fray. Many of the posters here did just that, and are better martial artists because of it. When I tell you to challenge, I do not mean 'abandon' as that would be silly and ineffective, and frustrating to boot. Next year will be my 50th year doing this, and coming from a Judo and wrestling background, I thought that I now had hit the trifecta on badassness when I first started, but I hadn't. Seek out the toughest, not the most brutal (like I did and pay for it still), but those who really LOVE Kenpo, but know what really exists out "here" in the world. I will not mention names, but many people who post here ARE in fact, those people I speak of. If you don't take my advice, fine! But then I worry you will just hang your thumbs in your belt and talk about "back in your day" and know that you coulda, but didn't. Quick story; I had just won the heavy weight division in the California Karate Championships. I was in a tourney in Santa Ana and got paired up with a well built, quick Black Belt who came over and told me it was an honor to fight the State Champ. He beat me in 22 seconds with the same kick that I could not block. It hurt physically, mentally and emotionally. I should've paid him for the lesson! Get what I'm saying?? In this way your "fear" will no longer be stronger than your constructive rage... Good luck!
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Joined: February 1st, 2011, 2:55 am

February 8th, 2011, 10:43 pm #13

I like SS and feel he is very good...I like Gene LeBell also...Story about him choking out SS and problems which occur at times when the choke is held to long...I have a patch from Judo Gene for getting choked out by him...I did not urinate myself as happened to SS, or so the story goes...


Bruce Lee was an exceptional MA star and actor...Could he have beaten SS or Judo Gene in his day??? I doubt it...

I have been in a lot of altercations myself, the rear choke is one that I used more times than I have fingers and toes...LOL

Gary
wish i was around when you guys were coming up, i know those were some great moments and stories
Last edited by godlikeskill on February 8th, 2011, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 1st, 2011, 2:55 am

February 8th, 2011, 10:53 pm #14

... as one poster rightly put it. Look, at ten years move in the direction that most concerns you. If you're stumped, seek out someone like Joe Simonet (or many, many others) and ask them to train you. Find a Kenpo guy/gal that will lead you to the path of reality and 'dents' then you'll have the question you ask answered. At this level, Nidan/2nd Degree you are what I call in the "Terrible Two's", that is, asking, challenging, searching for some way to release your self from the doubts that may be troubling you. Find and admit to a weakness you might have, or think you have, tighten your helmet cord, strap on your jock and jump into the fray. Many of the posters here did just that, and are better martial artists because of it. When I tell you to challenge, I do not mean 'abandon' as that would be silly and ineffective, and frustrating to boot. Next year will be my 50th year doing this, and coming from a Judo and wrestling background, I thought that I now had hit the trifecta on badassness when I first started, but I hadn't. Seek out the toughest, not the most brutal (like I did and pay for it still), but those who really LOVE Kenpo, but know what really exists out "here" in the world. I will not mention names, but many people who post here ARE in fact, those people I speak of. If you don't take my advice, fine! But then I worry you will just hang your thumbs in your belt and talk about "back in your day" and know that you coulda, but didn't. Quick story; I had just won the heavy weight division in the California Karate Championships. I was in a tourney in Santa Ana and got paired up with a well built, quick Black Belt who came over and told me it was an honor to fight the State Champ. He beat me in 22 seconds with the same kick that I could not block. It hurt physically, mentally and emotionally. I should've paid him for the lesson! Get what I'm saying?? In this way your "fear" will no longer be stronger than your constructive rage... Good luck!
"Terrible Two's" lol i like that, thanks for the valuble advice.

hang your thumbs in your belt and talk about "back in your day".... damn that just reminds me of so many people
Last edited by godlikeskill on February 8th, 2011, 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

February 9th, 2011, 5:54 pm #15

... as one poster rightly put it. Look, at ten years move in the direction that most concerns you. If you're stumped, seek out someone like Joe Simonet (or many, many others) and ask them to train you. Find a Kenpo guy/gal that will lead you to the path of reality and 'dents' then you'll have the question you ask answered. At this level, Nidan/2nd Degree you are what I call in the "Terrible Two's", that is, asking, challenging, searching for some way to release your self from the doubts that may be troubling you. Find and admit to a weakness you might have, or think you have, tighten your helmet cord, strap on your jock and jump into the fray. Many of the posters here did just that, and are better martial artists because of it. When I tell you to challenge, I do not mean 'abandon' as that would be silly and ineffective, and frustrating to boot. Next year will be my 50th year doing this, and coming from a Judo and wrestling background, I thought that I now had hit the trifecta on badassness when I first started, but I hadn't. Seek out the toughest, not the most brutal (like I did and pay for it still), but those who really LOVE Kenpo, but know what really exists out "here" in the world. I will not mention names, but many people who post here ARE in fact, those people I speak of. If you don't take my advice, fine! But then I worry you will just hang your thumbs in your belt and talk about "back in your day" and know that you coulda, but didn't. Quick story; I had just won the heavy weight division in the California Karate Championships. I was in a tourney in Santa Ana and got paired up with a well built, quick Black Belt who came over and told me it was an honor to fight the State Champ. He beat me in 22 seconds with the same kick that I could not block. It hurt physically, mentally and emotionally. I should've paid him for the lesson! Get what I'm saying?? In this way your "fear" will no longer be stronger than your constructive rage... Good luck!
Regarding JS and his direction, lots of discussion about it at SJK...

If it takes you until 2nd degree BB to come up with confusion I have to think, in this modern world of MMA, very slow learner, LOL...

With all the training JS has been doing in other arts, I am surprised he did not come out in the open long ago...I did and have fought with others who are hardcore Kenpo folks since training with Bruce Juchnik in late 80's and realized that was the direction I wanted to go...

His art is really about 5 of them combined very skillfully...Most of it is based on Mitose he mentions, but if you study as I do you will see it is more into the Kuntao Silat of it to be honest...

*****
American KunTao Silat

Two rich martial heritages melded into a synergistic American Martial Lifestyle

Historically, kuntao and silat have been practiced by ethnic groups divided by language and cultural diversities. Kuntao was the term describing the ethnic Chinese martial arts and silat was the generic term for the warrior arts practiced by the indigenous Indonesian peoples.
*****

JS has only of late shown all similar findings, Hmmm...LOL



Gary
Last edited by BGile on February 9th, 2011, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 25th, 2009, 8:54 am

February 9th, 2011, 8:50 pm #16

LOL! how is he a sad soul.. yea he was an actor, is that saying he wasnt a skillfull martial artist, **** GM Parker and GM Tatum are actors.. what does that make them?
First let me relate what Ed Parker said to me when I asked him about Bruce Lee. I am sure he said the same thing to others and said different things depending on the situation...

Ed said that Bruce Lee was something like 1 in 2 billion or something like that. He also said that Bruce was realy really good and when he said it he had a tone of sincerity. I have also heard in video of Ed him say basically the exact same thing so this is no big epiphiny.

Ed also went on to lable Bruce Lee as a "copy cat artist" meaning that Lee could see any movement from any system and duplicate it very very well but he qualified it to say that IF you were well versed in the art you could tell he was not completely correct. Personally I can see this in a number of Bruce Lee's moves like a spinning back kick..

By my mechanical standard many of Bruce Lee's base movement are flawed if you view them in a completely mechanical standard. However.. His net result was that he had incredible speed and power out of these so called "flawed" mechanics... So who the hell is right. A guy with perfect mechanics and so so speed and power or a guy with somewhat skewed mechanics and infinite speed and power?

In final analysis Bruce Lee was an incredible martial artist. His most important factor in my opinion was his spirit. But still you have to remember that for every movement that was flawed or comprimised he has some other pretty excellent excecutions and you can see that in his videos when he was auditioning and in other videos. Also as Kato..

Oh and one more thing Ed did say.. Something like "Bruce Lee was a PhD thesis in motion"..

Bottom line.. It can clearly be seen that Bruce Lee could put a foot up side your head and damage you before you even thought to engage him. Well at least to most people..

That is my opinion on this..
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Joined: January 25th, 2007, 11:34 pm

February 10th, 2011, 1:32 am #17

The Secrets of Tracy's kenpo are they reality or fantasy, fact or fiction?

Hello i recently posted this question on Sanjosekenp, so i would like to ask the kenponet forum for their opinions.

As a 10year+ student of the tracy system, reaching the rank of Nidan in 2000, right around the time of the 1st GOE. Joe Simmonet quoted to a group of our black belts " Your kenpo starts too late, and ends too soon". after thousands of hours of teaching, countless katas, chinese set, earth & sky, shaolin hand set ect...under my belt his words really started to make me question some things.

Prior to becoming a black belt, it was told that once you reach the level of black belt all the doors will open, lights will turn on, the 9principles of Tracy's kenpo will be reveled and you would start to understand the secrets of Tracy's kenpo. Atleast thats what the head instructor of the school i attended fortold.

Now over those years i've seen good instructors/students leave after reaching BB or above. some were good friends that i keep in touch with, now weather they left because of ego, petty difference or personal agenda. Never the less no one spoke of reaching a level where the secrets of the system were reveled.

After learning more useless katas that had no relevance to Kenpo. Doing MORE & MORE techniques on how to defend against the "ALL MIGHTY RIGHT PUNCH!" i asked the question WHY! none of the other bb had any answers,One Instructor told me because Master Tracy said so, and the head instructor(who never came on the mat to do any type of hands on application or teaching) seem to give me the run-around. all i got from him was "keep practicing"

So i ask, Are the secrets of Tracy's Kenpo reality or fantasy, how long does one stick around to try and find the truth or do you make the choice and seek the answer elsewhere, weather it be another style of kenpo or an entirely different style of martial arts.

Thank You!
Godlikeskill
No secrets other than as my instructor said, As a ShoDan you will now begin to learn...
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Joined: March 10th, 2005, 6:38 pm

February 10th, 2011, 3:46 am #18

The Secrets of Tracy's kenpo are they reality or fantasy, fact or fiction?

Hello i recently posted this question on Sanjosekenp, so i would like to ask the kenponet forum for their opinions.

As a 10year+ student of the tracy system, reaching the rank of Nidan in 2000, right around the time of the 1st GOE. Joe Simmonet quoted to a group of our black belts " Your kenpo starts too late, and ends too soon". after thousands of hours of teaching, countless katas, chinese set, earth & sky, shaolin hand set ect...under my belt his words really started to make me question some things.

Prior to becoming a black belt, it was told that once you reach the level of black belt all the doors will open, lights will turn on, the 9principles of Tracy's kenpo will be reveled and you would start to understand the secrets of Tracy's kenpo. Atleast thats what the head instructor of the school i attended fortold.

Now over those years i've seen good instructors/students leave after reaching BB or above. some were good friends that i keep in touch with, now weather they left because of ego, petty difference or personal agenda. Never the less no one spoke of reaching a level where the secrets of the system were reveled.

After learning more useless katas that had no relevance to Kenpo. Doing MORE & MORE techniques on how to defend against the "ALL MIGHTY RIGHT PUNCH!" i asked the question WHY! none of the other bb had any answers,One Instructor told me because Master Tracy said so, and the head instructor(who never came on the mat to do any type of hands on application or teaching) seem to give me the run-around. all i got from him was "keep practicing"

So i ask, Are the secrets of Tracy's Kenpo reality or fantasy, how long does one stick around to try and find the truth or do you make the choice and seek the answer elsewhere, weather it be another style of kenpo or an entirely different style of martial arts.

Thank You!
Godlikeskill
is pretty simple really...there aren't any.

you have learned Al Tracy's interpretation of Ed Parker's interpretation of Kenpo. It's time for you to move on and learn YOUR interpretation of Kenpo.

I think there are two ways to do this: embrace your weaknesses and concentrate on mastering that weak skill set. 2: embrace your fears and concentrate on mastering the unknown.

I've had a fear of knives since I was in middle school and had one pulled on me. Because of that, I put in a lot of time working with and against the knife and searched out people to teach me how to use it. I carry one, I train to defend against one, I constantly put one in my hand and move with it. Now my fear of the knife is merely healthy, not heart attack inducing. Because of this, my interpretation of Ed Parker's interpretation of Kenpo has changed, and MY KENPO has improved.

What is your weak link? I had many, but I started with grappling...

Pick a particular aspect of Kenpo that you naturally gravitate toward and become an expert in it...

In other words everyone's answer is different, because the answer is different for everyone. Don't make things too complicated. To quote someone smarter than I am, "The only Zen you'll find at the top of the mountain is the Zen you bring with you."

In other words there aren't any secrets man, just keep plugging away and you're bound to be better tomorrow than you are today.

Have fun training,

Troy








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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

February 11th, 2011, 3:36 pm #19

First let me relate what Ed Parker said to me when I asked him about Bruce Lee. I am sure he said the same thing to others and said different things depending on the situation...

Ed said that Bruce Lee was something like 1 in 2 billion or something like that. He also said that Bruce was realy really good and when he said it he had a tone of sincerity. I have also heard in video of Ed him say basically the exact same thing so this is no big epiphiny.

Ed also went on to lable Bruce Lee as a "copy cat artist" meaning that Lee could see any movement from any system and duplicate it very very well but he qualified it to say that IF you were well versed in the art you could tell he was not completely correct. Personally I can see this in a number of Bruce Lee's moves like a spinning back kick..

By my mechanical standard many of Bruce Lee's base movement are flawed if you view them in a completely mechanical standard. However.. His net result was that he had incredible speed and power out of these so called "flawed" mechanics... So who the hell is right. A guy with perfect mechanics and so so speed and power or a guy with somewhat skewed mechanics and infinite speed and power?

In final analysis Bruce Lee was an incredible martial artist. His most important factor in my opinion was his spirit. But still you have to remember that for every movement that was flawed or comprimised he has some other pretty excellent excecutions and you can see that in his videos when he was auditioning and in other videos. Also as Kato..

Oh and one more thing Ed did say.. Something like "Bruce Lee was a PhD thesis in motion"..

Bottom line.. It can clearly be seen that Bruce Lee could put a foot up side your head and damage you before you even thought to engage him. Well at least to most people..

That is my opinion on this..
Your observations and mentions, proves a couple of things...

Bruce was not that good and others were not either imho...

After all much of the time it was an opinion situation in the ring by the ref and no contact was made as a rule...Things have changed quite a bit in that direction...

During that time contact was the real way to take someone out in the street and it still is that way...

Movie makers made Bruce and others...

Those who had to fight for a living/enforce the law, know better...

Gary
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Joined: February 25th, 2009, 8:54 am

February 11th, 2011, 9:28 pm #20

Maybe you could outline your analysis of Bruce Lee's motion patterns to substantiate your viewpoint. In other words why specifically do you see him as an inferior martial artist in terms of his excecution?


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