Rank Thieves

Rank Thieves

Joined: August 19th, 2011, 11:53 pm

August 20th, 2011, 12:28 am #1

Per a prior post , If you know someone has stolen rank what should the people who have earned it do?
Stand by and let the injustice slide?
Say your piece and let others say why did you do that...he is not hurting you..

I say rank Thieves hurt all who earned it.
MY point here is if we let fakes take over then our art form DIES. Because no one will repect an art form that lets everything slide.

I know a person that I have personlly trained /and trained with (36) years I know he is now wearing 4 stripes. Which means S I - Senior instructor who a year ago could not get though orange / purple sheet. No 5 or 6 forms but he is now wearing 4...


Lets try to keep our standards up and to boot out the rank thieves.
PS my rank comes from Richard Planas.
20 years + in the arts
4th degree black belt
declined Rank from Shurinji Kenpo ( 2nd ) and Kun Tao kung fu...( 5th ) Did not earn them no need wearing them.
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Joined: November 25th, 2004, 3:22 am

August 22nd, 2011, 1:53 pm #2

As long as we remain a merchant economy, you are never going to stop people from selling promotions or outright claiming master-hood, to make a buck. I talked to a Gal the other day that told me she was a black belt, but could not for the life of her remember the name of the style. She then admitted only training a few months before she was promoted. She was hot; so, I can only imagine how that black belt test ended. This does give me some new dating angles to consider.
Sean
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Joined: February 1st, 2011, 2:55 am

August 23rd, 2011, 3:22 am #3

LMAO love it...
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Joined: August 23rd, 2011, 4:22 pm

August 23rd, 2011, 4:27 pm #4

Per a prior post , If you know someone has stolen rank what should the people who have earned it do?
Stand by and let the injustice slide?
Say your piece and let others say why did you do that...he is not hurting you..

I say rank Thieves hurt all who earned it.
MY point here is if we let fakes take over then our art form DIES. Because no one will repect an art form that lets everything slide.

I know a person that I have personlly trained /and trained with (36) years I know he is now wearing 4 stripes. Which means S I - Senior instructor who a year ago could not get though orange / purple sheet. No 5 or 6 forms but he is now wearing 4...


Lets try to keep our standards up and to boot out the rank thieves.
PS my rank comes from Richard Planas.
20 years + in the arts
4th degree black belt
declined Rank from Shurinji Kenpo ( 2nd ) and Kun Tao kung fu...( 5th ) Did not earn them no need wearing them.
It sounds nice and all to talk about how we shouldn't stand for rank thieves, and to talk about injustice and not being complacent... I mean, that's wonderful rhetoric and all... but what do you actually suggest? Resort to mob tactics and send someone to break their knees? Grab protest signs and stand outside their schools? Rant on internet forums? Complain to our friends?

I mean really - what do you suggest as an even possible solution to people wearing ranks they haven't earned?

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Joined: August 26th, 2011, 4:24 pm

August 26th, 2011, 4:24 pm #5

Per a prior post , If you know someone has stolen rank what should the people who have earned it do?
Stand by and let the injustice slide?
Say your piece and let others say why did you do that...he is not hurting you..

I say rank Thieves hurt all who earned it.
MY point here is if we let fakes take over then our art form DIES. Because no one will repect an art form that lets everything slide.

I know a person that I have personlly trained /and trained with (36) years I know he is now wearing 4 stripes. Which means S I - Senior instructor who a year ago could not get though orange / purple sheet. No 5 or 6 forms but he is now wearing 4...


Lets try to keep our standards up and to boot out the rank thieves.
PS my rank comes from Richard Planas.
20 years + in the arts
4th degree black belt
declined Rank from Shurinji Kenpo ( 2nd ) and Kun Tao kung fu...( 5th ) Did not earn them no need wearing them.
Mr. Miller, I happen to know the parties involved in your scenario.

The person who you state "stole" a rank has been training, according to you, for at least 36 years.

Furthermore the individual who ranked him is an original first generation Ed Parker Black Belt (Mike Allen in the Ed Parker family tree) who I have trained with since 1979.

So given that the 4th Dan you object to trained with and was certified by Mike Allen, how is that rank a stolen rank?

If a person were to steal a rank, it's a lot easier to get some certificates printed by organizations that will rank you in any style and buy a black belt. Testing with a KNOWN Ed Parker First Gen. Black Belt doesn't seem like an easy way to steal a rank.

And if you have any issues with that certification of rank, your issue would be with Mike Allen, not the individual who was certified. You should take the matter up directly with Mike Allen. It would probably not be the best idea though for you to suggest he isn't qualified to rank one of his own students.

Furthermore, in the entire time Mike has been teaching Parker Kenpo (since 76 or 77 I think) he has given out a grand total of 13 Black Belts. Not exactly a diploma mill. In fact the reason he has only promoted 14 individuals to black belt grade is because so few are willing to meet his standards and usually go elsewhere for quicker and easier black belt grades.

And quite honestly, belts and rank are meaningless. I don't even wear mine unless there is a reason to do so. Ever since they started putting black belts on 12 year old kids 20+ years ago it lost it's legitimacy. Then, like now, anyone could mail order a black belt and purchase certificates of rank.

Either a person knows the material or they do not. Either a person can perform at that level or they cannot. And either way it won't matter what belt they are wearing. People who know will know, and people who don't know couldn't tell the difference anyway.

My advice is to worry about your training and what you can do, that way when those who know see you, they will know what you are and what you are not.
Last edited by SteyrAUG on August 26th, 2011, 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

August 27th, 2011, 3:08 pm #6

First off, is this the same Mike Allen I know? Joe Lewis's student? If so, I've trained with him a handful of times and he is a great guy.

"...he has given out a grand total of 13 Black Belts. Not exactly a diploma mill."

I've got him beat. I've been teaching 14 years and I haven't promoted anybody to black belt. And, I teach a full-time commercial studio. I hate to say commercial because most are belt factories. My school obviously isn't.

"In fact the reason he has only promoted 14 individuals to black belt grade is because so few are willing to meet his standards and usually go elsewhere for quicker and easier black belt grades."

Or they watch a few youtube videos and go on e-bay to buy the black belt.

"And quite honestly, belts and rank are meaningless."

Depends on who you get them from. I am not into rank myself. It is meaningless to me, but my rank comes from some amazing instructors so I am proud of where I come from. I just don't focus on rank at all.

"I don't even wear mine unless there is a reason to do so."

I teach full time and I rarely wear mine. I like the Miller's Dojo T-shirt and gi pants with no belt.

"Ever since they started putting black belts on 12 year old kids 20+ years ago it lost it's legitimacy."

I've seen kids as young as 4 wearing black belts. I've also seen grown men wearing them and not know how to do a neutral bow.


"Either a person knows the material or they do not."

See this is my problem. Rank is based on how much you know as far as the curriculum. So what!!! I don't care if you know 154 + techniques, 9 forms, and however many sets. I care about whether or not you can make your Kenpo work and I care about your character. If you have honor, dignity, and respect, and you can make your Kenpo work, that is much more important than memorizing Ideal phase techniques.



What matters most is what you have in your head and in your heart. Knowledge and skill are everything. The belt does not prove that. As Mr. Parker said, "The belts show, but they are not proof that you know."

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Joined: August 26th, 2011, 4:24 pm

August 27th, 2011, 11:57 pm #7

Not sure if he trained under Lewis or not.

I know he trained under Parker (1rst Gen Black Belt), Moses Powell and Rex Lee. He taught Parker Kenpo in Wilton Manors, FL starting in the late 70s.

As for everything else, it doesn't sound as if we actually disagree on most points. My reply was specifically directed to Dave Miller.
Last edited by SteyrAUG on August 27th, 2011, 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 26th, 2007, 5:46 pm

September 8th, 2011, 8:34 pm #8

Per a prior post , If you know someone has stolen rank what should the people who have earned it do?
Stand by and let the injustice slide?
Say your piece and let others say why did you do that...he is not hurting you..

I say rank Thieves hurt all who earned it.
MY point here is if we let fakes take over then our art form DIES. Because no one will repect an art form that lets everything slide.

I know a person that I have personlly trained /and trained with (36) years I know he is now wearing 4 stripes. Which means S I - Senior instructor who a year ago could not get though orange / purple sheet. No 5 or 6 forms but he is now wearing 4...


Lets try to keep our standards up and to boot out the rank thieves.
PS my rank comes from Richard Planas.
20 years + in the arts
4th degree black belt
declined Rank from Shurinji Kenpo ( 2nd ) and Kun Tao kung fu...( 5th ) Did not earn them no need wearing them.
I remember a story my instructor told me. one time when someone put on a black belt and nobody ever awarded it to them. The black belts, in the comunity knew it. In those days you could only get a black belt from so many people in town. The black betls paid the person a visit at his home. And it was not just those in Kenpo that paid him a visit. The black belts from the local shotokan school and Bushido Kan schools as well as on of the Kung Fu Guys. Basically one black belt called all the others he knew. They told this guy that he had better never wear rank he had not earned again. He was told that they would keep it private but they would make it public if it happened again. They also asked him to hand over the belt, which I was told he did. My instructor never told me the name. It does not matter. As I have gotten older, I have seen people claim rank, and while I might not agree about how they earned it, I at least respect those who are honest on how they got it. It is hard to take away knowledge I admit, but rank can and sometimes needs to be revoked.

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